Hands... How to do them, How to Improve?

[PKMN.YnoT]

***Uh, I wrote a lot more than I thought I would, just so you know***
So, I step into my third week of ITG, and I want to start doing these charts with hands. The only song with hands that I can get over 90% is ROMeo-&-Juli8 (did I spell that right? hehe). ... So I guess I'm not that good at them (and I'm too whimpy to try QoL and BYM). Sure, it's not like I'm SCARED to try them, but last week after playing Dawn Ex, my right palm is all bruised up... dark purple (and it hurts). Then I didn't play any songs with hands for a week (i.e. that would be til now).

I did read other forums relating to this, and I did get some insight on hands, but there are still somethings I want to know that are not mentioned.

Well, I guess I should give a bit of Intro to this and whatnot. From what I know and read, there are 3 ways to do hands:
(1) Use your hands (duh)
(2) Use your feet to hit 2 arrows at the same time by hitting the 2 corner sensors at the same time (Recommendation from other forums seems to be: You should probably have at least size 10 shoes, though some whose feet are smaller have been reported to be able to do this as well)
(3) Use knee drops (I think recommendation was to wear pants that cover over your knees for less pain?)

I have only tried (1) and (2) before.

(1) I am not sure if I am doing this method correctly, because my friend uses (1) only, and I thought he's not that great at hands either, but at least he doesn't get huge purple bruises on palms. So, something I want to ask:
1. how hard do you have to hit? (And of course I know it's hard to answer that question quantitatively... So maybe just a qualitative answer?)
2. Which part of the hand do you hit with? Is it different for holds?
3. Does it hurt when you hit? (it sure hurts mine...)
4. (related to question 2, a bit) Are your fingers spread apart when you hit or close together side by side?

(2) I did this only once during Kagami Ex. I guess this is pretty straight forward (no questions about how I guess). I have something to ask still though.
1. Do you feel that you need to hit/stand harder when you are hitting 2 freeze/hold notes with 1 foot? or... do you actually never hit 2 freeze notes with 1 foot at all because at least one of the freeze will be NG/Bad if you do that (i.e. do you think method (2) is not good for holds)?
2. Do you feel that you can actually hit the notes FASTER if you use method (1) instead of (2)? (i.e. e.g. in BYM, the part(s) where you have both feel on holds and then there's short gallops of the other 2 arrows that are not on hold, ... easier with (1) or with (2))?

(3) I did not try knee drops yet, though I would like to. Questions...
1. So I'm thinking, this method is totally NOT for triples or quads... Correct? I.e. it's only for freeze notes and then adding on more notes, but not for hitting 3 or 4 notes at once.
2. Same question as the Question 2 for method (2) replacing (2) with (3).
3. Of course, using (2) or (3), or I'd argue even (1), there's a BIGGER chance of getting NG... so for knee drops, do you think it's a bigger chance that you get a NG on the knee drop freeze note or the foot freeze note? I.e. say you step on LEFT arrow with your left foot, and then knee drop on the UP arrow with your left knee, which arrow has the greater chance of getting NG, LEFT or UP? Or do you think this really depends on how you position your body?

(4) I was thinking of cheating one day... somehow do hands with your hands without your hands touching the yucky pad. First thing that came to mind were my 5lb dumbells. I never did this yet, but I might... Another idea I thought of was using crutches (and maybe stick something to the end of it to increase the area that is going to touch the pad) so then it's like my hands are so much longer so I don't have to bend my back to reach my hands down. The only problem is: I don't have crutches. What are your thoughts on this?

(5) Other parts of body. Um.. this might be a bit of a stretch. Anyone actually use their head to hit triples?? Well... if you do, that's amazing lol. Another one I thought which MIGHT actually work out (better than head at least) is... Use your BUTT... Anyone tried this?? I think butts can do holds pretty well lol. I also read somewhere about using elbows instead of hands...

Other matters relating to the use of Hands in ITG are appropriate for discussion in this thread too I guess.
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[Boochypa]

I would think that using your feet only (assuming you're capable of it) is by far the easiest way.

Your knee method doesn't sound like it would work unless your shins are like 8 inches long...

[Arctic Wolves]

Some short notes, because I, too, suck at hands.

1) I find the "legitimate" way the best. Sure, it hurts the hands, but it's the most reliable method and the least painful in the long run. I find that snapping down from standing rigid is a bad idea; I have to anticipate hands and kind of lower myself in advance so I don't have to slam the pad and fall over or something. I hit with my palm, well, the kind of palmy place near the wrist. I took Tae Kwon Do, and it's like this palmy fisty thingie... you also use it for serving in volleyball. It can take a beating, and I can put a lot of pressure on it before it starts to hurt. Arcade pads are pretty iffy in terms of how they register depending on their cleanliness, but I find that I have to much harder at the arcade than at home (this is, if I played DDR at home and decided to hand plant; I can't actually test real hands at home because, well, ItG for PS2 isn't out yet). But by virtue of how I hit, my fingers are together and kind of curled under my palm. They don't actually touch the pad, just my wrist-fist thing. Wow, I suck at explaining.

2) It's possible, but I find it too unreliable. I imagine on my home metal pads this method would be far more viable, but as it stand in arcades, this method is more of a novelty than a practical alternative for me. Unless you have Ryan Stiles sized feet... It'd probably be way easier to do hands if I could consistently and properly do this though.

3) O GOD NO THE PAIN. I've tried knee dropping. It puts you into a world of hurt. I'm probably doing it "wrong" but I can't see how else to do it. Plus, I can't hold freezes this way, and did I mention how much it hurts? My knees have had a history of suckage though, so people with better knees might be able to do this for all of a week before getting surgery. And you're right. At least, I know I can't knee drop and hit four arrows. You can do three, but it's weird, and I'll always miss. It'd work in theory if I was fast enough and could take the pain. With four, I think you'd have to use at least one hand. Knee dropping is really just something I do to fool around. Okay, not really, because even then it still hurts a lot. >_>;

4) I've never thought of dancing with props.

5) I CAN BEAT QUEEN OF LIGHT EXPERT WITH MY TONGUE. *Cough*
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[DJTyrant]

On non freeze hand steps I know LilQ just hits the three or four arrows required quickly and gets them in. I've been able to reproduce this a few times.
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[Karl Popper]

Get some biking gloves, like the kind with gel in the palm of the glove. That way you can hit the pad hard without hurting your hand. Also, don't hit the center of the pad; occasionally you'll get pad misses just because the force you're applying is dissipated over all four sensors, and is not strong enough to trigger one. Instead, aim slightly toward one edge of the pad (probably the inside edge so you can apply more force), so the force is concentrated on one sensor.

[CFA.BIG LEVO]

I would suggest using more of a push than a slap, using the bottom of your palm. Slapping sensors hurts really bad, but if you just use the bottom to apply pressure when you need to it doesn't hurt very much at all.

[J. S. Mill]

A few tips:

1) Use Gloves (Chris's suggestion)
2) Lower Yourself in Advance if possible
3) Apply steady pressure to a side of the arrow

It shouldn't hurt if you do all that.

Hand-freezes also require me to shift some of my weight onto my hands, or use my knees if possible (I do in R&J).
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[LET ME SHOW YOU THEM]

When trying to hold trips or quads, don't look at the screen unless you have to, i find that when i look at the screen i drop stuff alot more consistantly then if i look down. You could also practice cheating on freezes by snapping your foot off the freeze, hitting the note and getting back on the arrow, but this takes alot of practice
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theficionado wrote:

Seriously, they should make some sort of spray for you.

[DJTyrant]

Adding to what Caffy said, I definetly recommend using the bar if you use the method he mentioned...and having big feet, or big shoes.
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[Karl Popper]

[ninjafetus]

[PKMN.YnoT]

Hey, thanks for all the advice! I just went to arcade today, trying to try out some of the tips:

Pushing instead of slapping was much less painless! Also, I took the advice of hitting with the wrist part of the hand (like serving in volleyball), and that seemed to have been much better (in both the results of the game play and the amount of pain).

Oh, and yeah, I realize that there are 4 sensors in each corner of the arrow, but I usually tend to want to hit near the center cuz hitting at the side seems to give me cuts or something cuz I'd hit right in between the metal and the arrow... I guess that's where the "don't look at the screen" hint comes into play)

I bought a pair of size 12 shoes recently (I usually wear 11, but those 12 seem to fit... only a tiny bit big), trying to do hands with feet, I find that they work great (relative to using hands) on non-freeze triples and quads, but 100% of NG and 40% chance of miss on those freeze-with-add-on-hands notes. So I guess from now on, for those non-freeze triple/quad-jumps I'll just use my feet, and for the freeze ones I'll resort to using hands.

I did not try kneedrops, because I forgot to. I didn't use gloves because I didn't bring any. Thanks again everyone for your help.
... I guess now, with all this newly apprehended profound knowledge, the thing that will truly help is (... like the usual...) PRACTICE.
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[J. S. Mill]

Gloves really do help quite a bit.
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[PKMN.YnoT]

[ninjafetus]

[PKMN.YnoT]

[DAF]

[Houou Don't You Want Me]

This is based off my ITG Experience with a rather crappy home ignition pad.

Its easier to me to do 'multiarrow' (ex. 3 or 4 arrows at the same time such as the first hand of Delirium Expert) with my feet - method 2. I CAN do them with my hands rather easily but intuitively I hit them with my legs, I guess I spoiled myself too much I want to hit them with my hands as its much more fun.

On hold->arrows hands such as these in Kagami Expert I do them with my hands - its the easiest way and I have enough response time as to not intuitively hit them with my feet. Its also hard for me to not get a Bad when using my feet on this type of hand.

[PKMN.YnoT]

[Phil Hellmuth]

Heres a lil tip for 2 certain songs


Dawn (Expert) Singles
Ok during the repetitive hands part. The first part goes LRL, then the second goes URU, and the third goes LDL. Well I got a real good suggestion for the 3rd part. Cuz after the 3rd part you got 2 runs going L and R.

Well for the third part, it is a bit tricky but I would have the right arm grab the bar for balance and with the left, you hit the first 2 hands. But wait what about the 3rd one? Well the main suggestion is USE YOUR LEFT FOOT! Yes thats right. See The thing is that third hand is so close to the end of the freeze that if you let go of your left foot and hit that arrow with that foot, you will hit the hand yet maintain the freeze. It works so try it


same goes for TELL EXPERT DOUBLES (not like this will help many of you)
but the song has a good amount of hands yet I dont bend down to hit them and I managed to hit them. Its like the Dawn Situation. The hand arrows are so close to the end of the freeze so if you move your feet quickly to the hands part, ull get both. Try it and ull be surprised
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