1/52nd notes

foyboy21 · Roxor Staff Joined: 21 Sep 2002 Location: Seattle

Recently I have read a few topics that have gotten off topic and asked about if 1/52nd notes exhist. This can apply to any music game, or just to music in generall.

Here is what I know about 1/52nd notes that may clear up a few things for people.

1/52nds don't exhist in music as far as I know.

Music is composed of quarter notes and triplets. Rarly music has 5thlets and 7thlets. Perhpas in some very obsucre classical music there may exhist something else. However to get a 52nd note you have to derive it from 13thlets. I have never heard of anything like a 13thlet EVER.
quarter notes give you the 1/2, 1/4 1/8 1/16 1/32 1/64, 1/128
Triplets give you teh 1/3, 1/6, 1/12, 1/24, 1/48, 1/96, 192
fifthlets give you 1/5, 1/10, 1/20, 1/40, 1/80, 1/160

as you can see getting to the mythical note of 1/52 does not exhist. Inorder to make this happen you would have to start with a 13thlet
1/13, 1/26, 1/52

So do 52nds exhist in actuall music? I challange anyone to find sheet music that actually contains this note.

Now with that in mind, when dealing with live music and not digital music, you will find that people can not play perfectly. People get "greats" and what not all the time when performing. In order to synch steps perfectly to a human performance error one may have to place a note where a 1/52nd would exhist. However this would only come about when synching to a human error and not in actuall musical connotation.

Max the Legendary Dancer · Trick Member Joined: 12 Feb 2005

eaglefan101 · Trick Member Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Location: Somewheres

nope! Bag has 1/24ths. ALL 1/24ths.
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[ES] GARYsurvivor · Trick Member Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Location: Lakewood, CO

Xayro · Trick Member Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Location: Kokomo, IN

sorry man... 1/12 exists..

Afronova.. the green notes at the end.
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[ES] GARYsurvivor · Trick Member Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Location: Lakewood, CO

tac-tics · Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:16 pm Post subject:

1) Foy, were you drunk when you posted that?
2) Define "exhistance"
3) I already destroyed one thread with pointless bag ranting. Please discuss bag's steps there ^__^
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eaglefan101 · Trick Member Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Location: Somewheres

deM' · Trick Member Joined: 10 Apr 2005 Location: Southington CT

Yea foy, spelling errors to the yin-yang hahah

EXISTANCE
EXIST

mavrik_055 · Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:34 pm Post subject:

i have never come across a 52nd note in any sheet music ive ever played, nor in DDR. I hope to god they dont exist, could you imagine trying to count one out?

[ES] GARYsurvivor · Trick Member Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Location: Lakewood, CO

bemani-man · Trick Member Joined: 14 Jun 2003 Location: Ridgeland, SC

Before anyone else posts, I'd like clarification. Are you asking about DDR arrows, or music? I interpret that you mean 1/52 notes in sheet music, but a few think you mean DDR arrows...
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ParanoiaFantasy · Trick Member Joined: 07 Jul 2005 Location: Writing tCoR

I'm pretty sure there will never be a 52nd note in DDR, and as far as I know there is still no triplet, its just a bunch of extremely close notes, so if you are a perfect arrow reader by sound, you will never get a AAA on songs like Tsugaru or Burning Heat.
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Edible Bondage Tape · Trick Member Joined: 26 Jan 2002 Location: Kerri

i woudl sggest looking in baroke music foy if youw ant to gind any and all kind of weird meter division or chodial tones even and especial the more famous baroke composers
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tac-tics · Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:22 am Post subject:

foyboy21 · Roxor Staff Joined: 21 Sep 2002 Location: Seattle

ninjafetus · Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:32 am Post subject:

I dunno... to say that something 'exists' or not makes it quite murky. Does it exist in sheet music? Maybe. I mean, there could be a song where you have a fast set of small notes with a "13" above that fits in the first beat. That would be 52nd notes. But if there was a piano piece with that, you wouldn't call them "52"nd notes, because you'd play them without that measure of accuracy. I don't think it's right to say that the performer is "getting greats" or whatnot... playing music reuires emotion, not robotic timing.

However, now we enter a digital age of music. I know that you can define a rhythm, and then you can set a program to 'swing' it a certian amount. You know, when you play a swinging piece in sheet music you might see the notation at the top that says "2 eight notes = the first and last note in a set of triplets." (harder to write in words that musical notation). That would be a 100% swing. What if you used a program to only swing a rhythm, say... 25%? Well, it's not 8th notes it's not triplets (12ths notes)... it's some number 25% in between. And if you do the math, I know you can come up with a number to put there. I know that 8th and 12th (triplets) are separated by amounts of 24th notes, so 25% would probably be different factors of 96ths. But should I really say "well, 96ths don't exist! They're not in sheet music, why would anyone say 96th in their right mind?"

Well, there's a reason. In a digital age of music, we have tools that allow for infinitly complex and precise rhythms. When we talk about them (or write steps to them in a music game) in order to discuss them intelligently, we need a precise and consise way to talk about them. It really irks me when people say "there's no such thing as 12th notes, they're really called triplets." Well, yes, but it muddles conversation when you are forced to say "8th note triplets" or "16th note triplets" or worse (depending on the complexity) when you could clearly and quickly make it completely understandable by saying "12th" or "24th" notes. It's pretty accepted that 12th notes "exist" now. The only people who argue about it are the musical notation nazis, but I think they're even starting to realize that numerical notation (or language IN GENERAL) is just a tool for communication.

But do 96ths, 52nds, 2392635ths, or Nth notes really exist? Well, define existance. If you say "well, it exists if it occurs in music," then I'll just go to a sound editor, take a high pitched noise that lasts one measure, split it into N notes, and then it exists. Even if it doesn't sound great, a more talented composer might be able to make it sound great, and you probably wouldn't notice, much less be bothered, by the Nth notes that are present. More realistically, what if someone has a swinging rhythm of some set percentage? (which seems to be the case in go 60 go, unless he specifically wrote them to be 52nds, but that's like the first example). In order to have accurate and efficient communication, wsaying "52nd" is the easiest way to do it, and arguing about if they really exist or not is ludicrous. If it's IN THE SONG, then it exists. If you say it doesn't really exist because "it's not common in musical notation" then how are you supposed to communicate when talking about the rhythm?

...anyway, I think you all get my point. I'm done here, although I might be ale to find an example of 52nds in sheet music if you give me a chance to check some Chopin preludes. He likes to fit a lot of notes in small places

EDIT: Just a couple minutes later, I found one example. Chopin's Nocturne in B Major, Op. 32, No. 1. In measure 60, the 4th beat has 13 notes. Well, you hold the first one and play the next 12, but the rhythm is still legitimatly 52nds. WAIT! Now let's argue if they're really 52nds because you are supposed to play them with emotion, and it's not robotic timing! I think you all get my point... it's all about communication, why argue? If the teals in Go 60Go are 52nds, then you have to either admit they exist in music, or the stepchart is not accurate, so just go with me on this one, okay.

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Pop'n Usagi! · Trick Member Joined: 17 Nov 2002 Location: Your mum

This is going slightly too far. No one except the dancegeeks cares about anything higher than 32nd notes, and the mmajority just think "arrows". Even in sheet music, while possible, it doesn't happen. Overanalysis isn't healthy.
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ninjafetus · Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:24 pm Post subject:

foyboy21 · Roxor Staff Joined: 21 Sep 2002 Location: Seattle

Dude, you totally have to post a link to the sheet music that has the 13thlets in it. I had no idea that they existed in sheet music. I can't wait to discuss your post further as you have so many good points. When I return to Seattle I'll have more time to respond to this.