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Suko
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Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Location: Lynnwood, WA |
20.  Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| jesusfr3ak4evr wrote: | I went from passing 8's to 11's in a couple weeks.
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I do remember passing Sepia 8 foot or Xepher 8 foot and practically falling over from exhaustion. That is what happens when you try to copy "much better" players who stomp the arrows and waste their energy. I know better now... currently I'm passing 14's (including Juggernaut) =) |
Dang. That has to be one of the fastest progressions I've ever heard of! I don't know how you progressed so quickly.
I got two questions for you?
1) I assume you use the bar if you're passing 15s, but have you always used the bar?
2) What are your average scores on an 8, 9, 10, 11, etc step song?
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| 21. Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| jesusfr3ak4evr wrote: | | currently I'm passing 14's (including Juggernaut) |
| Quote: | | First 15 pass in May (Juggernaut). |
Not to split hairs or anything, but which is it?
| Quote: | | Actually, here is what I think is the biggest hurdle for me: being able to combo 190-200 bpm streams for as long as 15-20 seconds such as in Chromatic Blitz and Dokudenpa (188bpm) |
From what I recall, Juggernaut is ~210? It can be heel-toed from what I remember from the steps - so you don't have to turn your body at all. Staircase runs and drills.
Chromatic Blitz and (more importantly) Dokudenpa involve actually turning your body at that speed. You might be able to cheat heel-toe on the stream on Chromatic Blitz, but that second long run in Dokudenpa actually involves turning your body and feet. Heel-toe for it just isn't an option (unless you are some kinda beast lol). |
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JC_Denton46
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Joined: 14 Apr 2009
Location: Austin, TX |
| 22. Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Wait...15 footers?
I was pretty sure 12 was the maximum, even on ITG
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jesusfr3ak4evr
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Joined: 28 May 2006
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| 23. Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| suko wrote: | Dang. That has to be one of the fastest progressions I've ever heard of! I don't know how you progressed so quickly.
I got two questions for you?
1) I assume you use the bar if you're passing 15s, but have you always used the bar?
2) What are your average scores on an 8, 9, 10, 11, etc step song? |
I had never played on a hard pad until October of 2007 when I decided to step up and play at UMBC DDR Club. I had a RedOctane soft pad that I had played at home some, but for instance... I didn't know about speed modifiers, what the heck ITG was, etc. I had been playing crap songs, and in fact I hadn't played at all since before summer of 2006.
so I got Stepmania, learned to use speed modifiers, got all the songs we had at club (sooooo many lolz... like 1000), learned the songs, then went back to club and played the ones I had practiced with my fingers. Eventually I got good enough on fingers to pass 14's like Holy Orders, Emerald Sword, etc. Then I got more and more hard songs, learned who the good step chart makers were by watching videos of all the top players on youtube, and eventually got to the point where I could pass any song on keyboard up to about 280 bpm 16ths. That was using spread. Approximately 4-6 weeks ago I started using index with each finger on a separate set of 4 keys so they don't trip on each other. Now I can pass anything up to Ub3r Rave 1.3x speed. My accuracy has also improved a lot over time; now I'm tri-starring 14's like Forever in this Moment and All For You.
The main reason for switching to index is to improve my motor memory skills when transitioning to pad. However, playing on pad is ultimately best, but I couldn't do that this semester. Over the summer I will be able to play every day, so I expect to improve to pass 14's with the level of ease I currently pass 13's, and hopefully I'll be able to do Dragonforce 15's.
1) I didn't start using the bar until spring of 2008. I was passing 11's without the bar (Boten Anna, Xuxa, Sepia, Xepher). In fact, I've no barred songs as difficult as Infernoplex. Now I've passed every official ITG song (with a bar) except Vertex^2. I haven't tried no-barring anything difficult recently, so I really don't know where I would stand.
2) average score on 8-10 foot is 98%. I can tri-star songs but not consistently. Average score on an 11 such as Crazy Loop, Johanna, etc is 97%. Average score for the 12 really depends on the song, but it's around 90%. Average score for a 13 is in the low-mid 80's. My average score for 14's (passed a handful now) is about 78%.
| Ninja N8 wrote: | Not to split hairs or anything, but which is it?
From what I recall, Juggernaut is ~210? It can be heel-toed from what I remember from the steps - so you don't have to turn your body at all. Staircase runs and drills.
Chromatic Blitz and (more importantly) Dokudenpa involve actually turning your body at that speed. You might be able to cheat heel-toe on the stream on Chromatic Blitz, but that second long run in Dokudenpa actually involves turning your body and feet. Heel-toe for it just isn't an option (unless you are some kinda beast lol). |
Mad Matt's Juggernaut. The other one (made by Izzy?) is at least a 16. It's 240 bpm, by the way... big difference from 210 bpm lol. It is mainly drills with few turns, as you said. I have good stamina (relatively) and can drill pretty well, so the song suits my current set of strengths.
You're right, turning my body is the issue at higher bpms. That's probably what tires me out so fast--the fact that I'm not turning my body in time.
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baseSon
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chennymountain
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DahrkDaiz
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| 26. Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| baseSon wrote: | I agree that the jump from a 9 to a 10 is huge, perhaps sakura, bag, chaos etc. transition pretty well from 9's such as cartoon heros and konoko but the likes of the max's, paranoia survivors need much more time, personally i can AA any 9's first attempt but cannot get above B's in the harder 10's..im really bad at 10's  |
Keep in mind, the "harder 10s" in DDR are things like TLoM, Paranoia Survivor Mix Challenge, Pluto Relinquish, etc. I would keep Max 300, Paranoia Survivor, Xepher Oni, Trip Machine Phoenix Challenge, Max 300 SMM in the same category, being mid-10s and stuff such as Arrabiata, HDV, and Chaos being lower tier 10s and Max Unlimited, TLoM, Paranoia Respect being upper tier 10s. All old-style foot ratings had easy, mid and hard difficulties within their respective ratings (B4U's 8 is definitely not the same as Luv to Me AMD Mix's 8).
This is why I believe having a 30 step scale for rankings would be much better where a 30 would be upper tier 10 footers (Hades Oni) and 28 would be lower tier 10 footers (bag). So basically take the existing foot rating (adjust the rating if it was misrated first, such as Unreal) and have that be the max rating (hardest 9s are 27, hardest 8s are 24) and then adjust them one or two notches down the scale depending how hard of a 10/9/8 etc they are. As such, Max 300 would be a 29 (mid 10), CSFILSM would be a 26 (mid 9), Konoko would be a 27 (hard 9), B4U would be a 23 (mid 8) and so on. |
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JC_Denton46
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Joined: 14 Apr 2009
Location: Austin, TX |
| 27. Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| DahrkDaiz wrote: | | baseSon wrote: | | I agree that the jump from a 9 to a 10 is huge, perhaps sakura, bag, chaos etc. transition pretty well from 9's such as cartoon heros and konoko but the likes of the max's, paranoia survivors need much more time, personally i can AA any 9's first attempt but cannot get above B's in the harder 10's..im really bad at 10's |
Keep in mind, the "harder 10s" in DDR are things like TLoM, Paranoia Survivor Mix Challenge, Pluto Relinquish, etc. I would keep Max 300, Paranoia Survivor, Xepher Oni, Trip Machine Phoenix Challenge, Max 300 SMM in the same category, being mid-10s and stuff such as Arrabiata, HDV, and Chaos being lower tier 10s and Max Unlimited, TLoM, Paranoia Respect being upper tier 10s. All old-style foot ratings had easy, mid and hard difficulties within their respective ratings (B4U's 8 is definitely not the same as Luv to Me AMD Mix's 8).
This is why I believe having a 30 step scale for rankings would be much better where a 30 would be upper tier 10 footers (Hades Oni) and 28 would be lower tier 10 footers (bag). So basically take the existing foot rating (adjust the rating if it was misrated first, such as Unreal) and have that be the max rating (hardest 9s are 27, hardest 8s are 24) and then adjust them one or two notches down the scale depending how hard of a 10/9/8 etc they are. As such, Max 300 would be a 29 (mid 10), CSFILSM would be a 26 (mid 9), Konoko would be a 27 (hard 9), B4U would be a 23 (mid 8) and so on. |
X is kinda doing that with their 20 scale, though it needs needs some work
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jesusfr3ak4evr
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| 28. Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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People have been rating songs as easy/medium/hard 11, 12, 13, 14, etc for a while. For example: Uber Rave is a hard 13. Boss on Parade is an easy 14.
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pleasedon'thurtme
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| 29. Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Are people like jesusfr3ak4evr exceptional? I have been stuck on nines for several months now -- heck, I can't do most 11's on the Playstation controller. Speaking of which, I can pass Pluto Relinquish challenge using the Playstation controller, but I cannot pass most 11's. Of course, I do not know if factors of stamina, balance, and maybe some coordination, which are virtually negated by the Playstation controller, affect the difficulties of songs relative to one another -- I can pass VerTex and Xuxa on expert and Pandemonium on hard more easily than I can Anubis on expert on normal speed, and no Dance Dance Revolution song seems as tough as most 11's on In The Groove -- Pluto Relinquish does not really seem that bad on the Playstation controller (as in, it doesn't seem as if it would be the toughest Dance Dance Revolution song ever although it has been awhile since I tried Fascination Maxx or Paranoia Hades on the Playstation controller, neither of which I have passed). Oh, by the way, I can barely do nines (songs like Twilight Zone, Sakura -- not a 10-footer/misrated, and Tribal Style hard are about my limit). I usually do not make A's on nines, and I cannot pass songs (last time I checked) like Breakdown, So Deep, Healing Vision Angelic Mix, Cartoon Heroes, heck I can't pass Paranoia Evolution or Gradiusic Cyber (I've been known to screw up on Max 300 standardO_o).
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chennymountain
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JC_Denton46
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| 31. Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| chennymountain wrote: | | well, now I can pass Max300 and PS Heavy and Utopia, but I still can't pass Cartoon Heroes and Walking on Fire |
Whoa, really?
I passed every 9 in the game, then it took me like 3 months to pass Max 300 the first time
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NIQ9
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| 32. Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:58 am Post subject: |
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ITG helps with improving. I was at the point where I was AAing 9 footers with about 40 greats, but still haven't passed any of the real 10s (any 10 other than Sakura, Bag, or Chaos). I bought ITG PS2 and Passed Vertex expert 2 weeks later. I went back to DDR and was able to pass every song but FELMO (this was before SN2)
ITG also helps with your PA. About 5 months after I started playing ITG, I started AAAing charts, including a few 9 footers (though this is on the home version. I only have 5 AAAs at the arcade. no 9 footers, but I do have a flag on Stoic)
To get an Idea on my skill level now, I can pass a few 13s, most 12s, and everything under. I've 98'd Utopia and a few other 11s, 99'd quite a few 10s, including Cryosleep, and I get 99.60+ on most 9s. I have about 99.40 on Johanna. For DDR, I have AA'd Maxx Unlimited with about 20 greats and a miss and I have SDG on Sakura and few other Top Tier 9s.
I wouldn't be this good without ITG. You can't get a Calimist or Mad Matt from DDR charts.
| chennymountain wrote: | | Ninja N8 wrote: |
Max 300 - My Favorite Game
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I think it should be Max300 - Something like Walking on Fire or even Xuxa. My Favorite Game is way easier than Max300. |
I'd say Robotix.
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DahrkDaiz
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| 33. Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| NIQ9 wrote: | | ITG helps with improving. I was at the point where I was AAing 9 footers with about 40 greats |
er, this doesn't really tell us anything. Frozen Ray won't net you an AA with 40 greats (at least on Supernova), where is getting 40 greats on Xepher, considering how off it is, might be impressive.
| NIQ9 wrote: | | but still haven't passed any of the real 10s (any 10 other than Sakura, Bag, or Chaos). |
Besides Sakura, Bag and Chaos are real 10s. A 10 is not a high speed song with a ton of steps.
| NIQ9 wrote: | | ITG also helps with your PA. About 5 months after I started playing ITG, I started AAAing charts, including a few 9 footers (though this is on the home version. I only have 5 AAAs at the arcade. no 9 footers, but I do have a flag on Stoic) |
Eh, I don't think ITG helps with your PA. DDR in general has a tighter timing window on the arcade. The home versions vary too much to judge your PA properly. If you kept playing DDR for 5 months on the arcade, you probably would have started to AAA charts as well.
| NIQ9 wrote: | To get an Idea on my skill level now, I can pass a few 13s, most 12s, and everything under. I've 98'd Utopia and a few other 11s, 99'd quite a few 10s, including Cryosleep, and I get 99.60+ on most 9s. I have about 99.40 on Johanna. For DDR, I have AA'd Maxx Unlimited with about 20 greats and a miss and I have SDG on Sakura and few other Top Tier 9s.
I wouldn't be this good without ITG. You can't get a Calimist or Mad Matt from DDR charts. |
Actually yeah you can. I've been able to passing some ITG 10s and 11s without bar and I rarely ever play ITG. I surely didn't get that good from playing ITG. I think you're ability to PA is regardless of which 4 Panel dancing game you play. Plus, it's been my general experience that those who play ITG most of the time don't do nearly as well on DDR (though they do very well, they just have to try a little bit harder). |
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DAVE101
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| 34. Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| DahrkDaiz wrote: | | NIQ9 wrote: | | I wouldn't be this good without ITG. You can't get a Calimist or Mad Matt from DDR charts. |
Actually yeah you can. I've been able to passing some ITG 10s and 11s without bar and I rarely ever play ITG. I surely didn't get that good from playing ITG. |
This hardly supports you argument, so I'll just go ahead and say it: you are wrong.
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| 35. Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| DAVE101 wrote: | | DahrkDaiz wrote: | | NIQ9 wrote: | | I wouldn't be this good without ITG. You can't get a Calimist or Mad Matt from DDR charts. |
Actually yeah you can. I've been able to passing some ITG 10s and 11s without bar and I rarely ever play ITG. I surely didn't get that good from playing ITG. |
This hardly supports you argument, so I'll just go ahead and say it: you are wrong. |
I'll say he's half-wrong.
You can build a lot of endurance from no-bar play. But, unless you know how to increase your speed, it is unlikely that you will go from no barring Tsugaru (for example) to no barring Xuxa. It's quite a jump. I can verify this because I have no barred for a very long time - it's not my primary mode of play, but I do rock back to it.
I will tell you this right now - no barring anything 11+ in ITG is really freaking draining.
ITG actually *does* help with your PA. Practicing anything that is more difficult than what you have already played will automatically make you play better. Before I played ITG, I wouldn't dream of playing any max on x2. Now I have to, any speed slower than that is too slow for me (I read roughly C640 with bar on the most difficult charts, and up to C700 on easier ones). Also, it has allowed me to no bar at faster sightreading speeds. I can no bar around the speed that most people feel comfortable barring at (C530-C570). |
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DAVE101
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| 36. Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:31 am Post subject: |
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While we are on the subject Ninja Nate, I would like to say I'm a strict no bar player that has passed both Summer and Pandemonium. Not even ITG officials helped prepare me for that. The gap between 12s and 13s in ITG is pretty big if you think about it. Thanks to customs people can beat those songs without having to whore them.
Also my ideal read speed is 450 BPM, 570 no bar is pretty ridiculous.
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Nightime
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| 37. Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:20 am Post subject: |
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Step 1: Harder 9's/Lower 10's.
CAPTAIN JACK (Grandale Remix)
ORION.78 (civilization mix)
TRIP MACHINE CLIMAX
Healing Vision -Angelic Mix-
SO DEEP -PERFECT SPHERE REMIX-
Sweet Sweet v Magic
SAKURA (EXP)
PARANOiA Survivor
Healing-D-Vision (EXP)
CHAOS (EXP)
Arrabbiata
Uranus (CHG)
Unreal
NGO (EXP)
Pluto (EXP)
SABER WING (EXP/CHG)
On The Break
Step 2: Moderate 10s.
MAX 300
PARANOiA Survivor MAX (EXP)
PARANOiA -Respect- (EXP)
MAX 300 (SuperMaxMe Mix) (EXP)
Xepher (CHG)
Fascination -eternal love mix- (EXP)
CHAOS (CHG)
Pluto (CHG)
on the bounce (EXP)
SABER WING (AKIRA ISHIHARA Headshot Mix) (EXP)
Step 3: Higher 10s.
MAXX UNLIMITED
The legend of MAX
Fascination MAXX (EXP)
MAX 300 (SuperMaxMe Mix) (CHG)
TRIP MACHINE PhoeniX (EXP/CHG)
Pluto Relinquish (DIF)
Horatio (EXP)
on the bounce (CHG)
Trigger (EXP)
Step 4: Pro-level 10s.
PARANOiA Survivor MAX (CHG)
Fascination MAXX (CHG)
PARANOiA (HADES) (EXP)
Pluto Relinquish (EXP)
SABER WING (AKIRA ISHIHARA Headshot Mix) (CHG)
Trigger (CHG)
Horatio (CHG ~ Arcade)
PARANOiA MAX (SMM-Special)
Step 5: Psychosis.
Fascination -eternal love mix- (CHG)
Healing-D-Vision (CHG)
NGO (CHG)
PARANOiA (HADES) (CHG)
Pluto Relinquish (CHG) (Double EXP would go here, too.)
Horatio (CHG ~ PS2 USA)
DEAD END (Groove Radar Special) |
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