The gap between 9s and 10s is crazy if you think about it

[JC_Denton46]

Seems like most players work up step by step, and before you know it you're doing 9's quite well

Then you try Max 300 your first time and...fall over from exhaustion (At least I did lol)

It's like a brick wall that takes awhile to tackle, but once you do, it's so satisfying

So I'm wondering to you all: How long did you take you to go from a 9 footer to being able to do most 10's well?

I actually quit playing years ago when I was on the edge of getting there, but then after getting back a few months ago it took me about a month, so it's hard to say for me (That's why I'm asking you all)
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Back from the dead

[__]

DDR wasn't really designed with 10 scaling in mind.

Though you can go from hard 9s to max 300 without much transition. Most of the time people think 10s are so much harder because of how much harder they make it in their mind.

ITG 9s and 10s blend a lot better (mainly because there's more examples and 10 isn't the cap difficulty).

On the inverse...

If you think you can go from passing a 9 to HDVO, that's a mistake, but you can go from doing well on 9s to passing Max 300, MU, TLOM, PS, PSM, Xepher Oni, SMMM, and maybe Trigger/SMMMO.

You can get Chaos EX/Oni after playing it a few times...

The other 10s require outside exposure (usually ITG) to get good at them. There are of course exceptions to this rule, but they are few and far between.

To use it as an example, say you are getting a B on Max 300 while getting sweaty by it, and you say "hey, I'm passing 10s now - let's try Faxx". I am almost positive you will not pass Faxx with just a B on Max 300 while breaking a sweat.

I guess to explain it in terms of DDR ITG comparison, here is a short breakdown:

DDR / ITG [Approximate difficulty equivalent]

Max 300 - My Favorite Game
SMMMO - Xuxa / Charlene / Utopia
Fascination Eternal Love Mix - Somewhere between Tension and Tell
Faxx - Monolith / Clockwork Genesis
Paranoia Hades Oni - Bloodrush

You get the idea...

[DAVE101]

Paranoia Hades "expert" is a 9
NGO "expert" is a 9
Arrabiata is a 9
Cartoon Heroes is a 9
Konoko no Nanatsu no Oiwaini is a 9

If you can do these well than you can do many 10s well.
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poop

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[DAVE101]

Good.
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poop

[Slayer³]

Paranoia Hades = Energizer doubles wise. (Similar step layout, with the crunched up slowdown in the middle)

Yes Ninja, good comparison (DDR to ITG wise)

ITG is great for learning a variety of difficult songs because there are more.

[JC_Denton46]

I think the main problem I had was stamina, because I can easily read and do the first 2/3's of say Legend of Max no problem

But then I eventually just get to tired and can't keep up

Like I AA So Deep 90% of the time, but STILL haven't passed LoM because of stamina (I've done Max 300 and Maxx Unlimited, just gotta get LoM)
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Back from the dead

[__]

TLOM shouldn't exhaust you too much as long as your feet aren't spaced too far apart.

The end 1/3 of TLOM (with specific mentioning to the final "death run") is unique. From what I remember off hand, the run goes something like this:



There's six kinds of runs I've seen in this game.

Planted runs - one foot stays on one arrow, hitting just that one while the other foot moves around hitting any of the other arrows. Not a crossover.

Staircase runs - each foot changes position, but only to one other arrow. This is seen in "staircase patterns": left down up right left down up right. The left foot changes between the left and up arrow, and the right foot changes between the down and right arrow. Can be done without moving the body.

Dynamic runs - each foot must change position while in the run with each step that is made. Involves movement (turning) of the body.

Crossover runs - a run that has interlaced crossovers within it in a streaming pattern.

Hybrid runs - include a combination of the four previous runs mentioned and usually are very long.

Hammer/ Garbage arrow runs - runs that involve doublestepping, jackhammering, and bracketing to pass.

OK - going from that, the end run in TLOM is a dynamic run. You gotta get your left foot from the up to the down arrow while moving your right foot from the right arrow to the up arrow. Its unique in that you don't really see a pattern such as this at this speed (or even close to it) so that you can work on it.

I actually have a funny name for the TLOM run - I call it the "washing machine run".

[JC_Denton46]

Thanks for the tips man, I'll keep it in mind on my next attempts
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[Nemoide]

I was playing 9s before trying any 10s for maybe two months because I was afraid they would be so ridiculously impossible I could stand no chance.
Then I started trying them found that they weren't nearly as impossible as I had been fearing.

I'm afraid of whatever a 20 will be in the DDR X scale. At my current skill level I have no chance of passing Pluto Relinquish on Expert... on Challenge it looks like a nightmare... and that's only an 18???
One of these days I'm going to have to get ITG to find out what all the hubub's about?

[__]

I was looking at what they did with the DDR X scaling, and my assessment is that 15-16 is equivalent to an ITG 10, and 17-18 is equivalent to an ITG 11. Keep in mind that these are approximations.

[Haoie]

You're still doing better than me, still stuck at 7-8.
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Tonight

[DahrkDaiz]

I haven't had a lot of experience with ITG but from what I gathered from what little I played, an ITG 10 can span the hardest of DDR 9's to most DDR 10's. I've heard most people say PSMO was an easy ITG 11, same with Faxx Heavy, Felmo, Hades, etc and the hardest of DDR songs being ITG 12s (Faxx Oni, HDVO, Hades Oni, Relinquish Oni).

The thing is, DDR 10s for the most part have this commonality: they're fast and contain a lot of 16ths (or 8ths at double speed). Max 300, LoM, Paranoia Survivor, Unlimited, FaxX, HDV, Max 300 SMM, old Sakura Heavy, Paranoia Respect and Pluto Relinquish fit into this. The speed changes and pauses can be negligible for the most part due to the fact once you can predict them, they become of little concern. A lot of 9's vary in that they may be very fast and streamy (CSFILSM, Drivin, AA), may just contain complicated turns (Destiny Lovers, End of Century, HVAM), contains a complicated rhythm (I feel..., Matsuri Japan J-Summer Mix, iFuturelist Oni). There's a lot of reasons a 9 footer is a 9 footer, but very few 9 footers prepare you for what a DDR 10 footer will have in store.

In order to prepare for the pre-SN 10's, you need a few 9's to prepare:

Stamina builders: exotic ethnic, CSFILSM
Double stepping: End of Century, HVAM
Turns: Rhythm and Police, exotic ethnic
16th drills: Across the Nightmare

And for good measure, Cartoon Heroes.

In order to prepare post SN 10s, I think the only way to prepare for these is to play other 10s. I can't imagine someone beating Felm or FaxX before beating Max 300 or Paranoia Survivor. I don't think there's so much a gap in between 9s and 10s rather than a lot of players put 10 footers on a higher plain than what they should be. That, and I notice most players try to step the runs WAY too fast. Max 300's streams aren't any faster than Color Oni's 16ths.

[JC_Denton46]

[chennymountain]

It didn't really work like that for me. I can pass some 10's (Sakura, Chaos etc.), but I still can't pass some 9's (Cartoon Heroes, Arabiatta etc.). I think the big gap you are really trying to overcome is a lack of stamina because Cartoon Heroes takes way more out of you than Bag and Chaos.
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[Suko]

It took me so long to beat Max 300 that it became a running joke amongst my buddies. I was getting AAs on most 9s before I could even beat Max 300. Of course, I didn't use the bar to do it and with the bar it wasn't so bad. But going from 9's (no bar) to Max 300 (no bar) was incredibly difficult for me. Perhaps it's different if you're a player who consistently uses the bar.
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[JC_Denton46]

[Nightime]

Two biggest reasons people fail MAX 300:

1. BREATHING.

Don't hold your breath through the last half of the song. It's not any faster than the first half, and you've already gotten that far. Holding your breath for an entire minute while flailing will fail you for sure.

2. PACING.

Ironically, when people start getting BOOs and GOODs in the song, it's usually because they start OUTRUNNING it! Stepping faster than the song will fail you just as well as going slower. Pay attention to how fast you're going!


Finally, SAKURA and PARANOiA Survivor are great bridge-builders for stamina purpose and reading fast arrows. If they're too intense, start with Across the nightmare (ONI) or DROP OUT (HEAVY), and work into those, from there.

[chennymountain]

[jesusfr3ak4evr]

I went from passing 8's to 11's in a couple weeks. What killed me was complicated charts with crossovers, like Soapy Bubble. However, initially the biggest problem for me was missing the arrows on the pad. I would go off-center and totally miss certain arrows. I do remember passing Sepia 8 foot or Xepher 8 foot and practically falling over from exhaustion. That is what happens when you try to copy "much better" players who stomp the arrows and waste their energy. I know better now... currently I'm passing 14's (including Juggernaut) =) So yeah, the difference between 9's and 10's depends on the person. I personally think the difference between 13's and 14's is huge. It has been a much bigger and slower hurdle to overcome. I passed my first 13 last December, and I didn't pass a 14 till April (4 months). First 15 pass in May (Juggernaut). Actually, here is what I think is the biggest hurdle for me: being able to combo 190-200 bpm streams for as long as 15-20 seconds such as in Chromatic Blitz and Dokudenpa (188bpm). That's hard for me, and I'm in good shape right now (ran mile in 5:21 yesterday).
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