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Trick Member

Joined: 28 Mar 2002

40.

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:44 pm Post subject:

Brief response coming:

Quote:

You don't? Because DDR's engine cannot handle twelfth notes. It calculates beats based on divisions of 64ths and, since 12 doesn't go into 64 evenly, they're messed up. See this thread if you still don't understand.

Made in 2004. What's the ms difference now?

Quote:

Still, if you're hitting the inside or the center of the panel, it's not much difference. But yeah.

Even that's a problem.

Quote:

Why? PSMH/PSMO were difficulties that were legitimately challenging. It always irked me that PSMH was just PS on mirror for most of the song, but PSMO's chart is pretty damn good.

The slowdown wasn't necessary and the song blows (as a whole).

Quote:

My English is quite fine, thanks. In fact, your very latest post proves my point.

Oh? How so? No explanation?

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I'm not saying there weren't problems before, Sir English Major. I'm saying that since SN, there have been more.

More? Like how much more? So you have been taking notes for the last 7 years?

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Yes, the scene was dying (moreso in Japan, but that's insignificant). I'm not saying the series was going well, but Extreme was definitely one of the best mixes. If Konami had stuck to the same formula they used for created Extreme, SuperNOVA may not suck as much. But look what we got.

This proves how new to the scene you are.

Quote:

No, not really. I've played on awesome DDR pads that have stood up to weekends of stomping by upper-tier players. That was on Extreme. My local mall got SuperNOVA, and in less than a year, the pads render the machine almost unplayable. I can't pass -Respect-. Look at DigitalLife: a brand new machine was giving us problems - even an LED light broke within a day of play! If that doesn't prove how crappy an SN machine is made, I don't know what does. The pads and the machine's parts on a whole suck.

Wow, that's bull if I've ever seen it. You think Konami nerfed edit data support because arcades didn't know if it was a hot idea or not? Let me enlighten you before you pull some more crap out of your ass. Konami's division for making the memory card slots closed down and Konami never bothered to check on it. So while SN was coming out for PS2, Konami was promising edit data support and even the manual for SN CS tells us that edit data is present. Guess what? It can never be implemented. Yes, Konami lied.

1. You can blame the pads being bad on the new breed of players who stomp harder than any other group I have EVER seen. The structure of the pads never changed (unless you can tell me what they changed?). You're telling me that mystically the pads started to get worse as it was upgraded? How is that even possible? That's just bad upkeep = /

2. Digital Life has never worked properly cause the machines are on a STAGE. A stage that SHAKES VIOLENTLY. I should know, cause I was helping run the thing. The pads were in pristine (re: new) condition. I tried them and had no problems - but the stage was barely shaking and it was just me on the pad.

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That's part of it, yes. Intellectual property played a role. But I believe most of the problem was the fact that the Konami arcade cabinet, patented, was being used by Roxor to gain profits. Just the fact that two games are similar doesn't warrant a lawsuit, because Konami doesn't have a patent on games which involve stepping on panels to music. Roxor couldn't have faulted if they didn't rip out a DDR cab for their own purposes.

You ever seen a nintendo inside a sega genesis? I rest my case.

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Sorry, wrong again. Marvellous's didn't even exist before Extreme. Max and Max2 don't feature the flashing - go try it out yourself.

I was under the impression you could see a white flash clearly if you were playing dark on Max 2, but I could be mistaken. Also, I don't know how you got this whole "wrong again" thing, I haven't been "wrong" yet. I wouldn't get too hasty with your position of argumentation just yet.

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But the timing for getting a marvellous is very narrow - and if I get all perfects on a song in SN2, maybe I won't get the AAA that I deserve. Konami just combined an ITG aspect that worked in ITG and applied it to DDR where it doesn't work.

See this is the ITG fanboy coming out (that I already knew was there cause you are so vehemently opposing me). IN SN2, you need 99mil to AAA - but obviously, if you get all perfects, you will get 99 mil. Hell, people were getting AAA's with greats. Also, the marvelous/perfect window on SN2 is larger than on SN (if you hadn't read on people's feedback on it yet). I don't know where you got the idea that you won't AAA with all perfects.

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You'd win that bet. I did. Truthfully, I started on both Max2 and EX. But that's beside the point.

It's a natural bias. It's why I have a bias in favor of older mixes. Own up to it - I do.

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Okay, let's assume you're right saying that the syncing had to be troubleshot. We got a patch for SN, didn't we? What did it do? Almost nothing. It fixed some songs, but threw others offsync or neglected to treat the bad ones. At least EX was troubleshot in beta. We got the patch months after SN was released.

From what I have observed - and granted my accuracy isn't godly, the only MAJOR complaint I had syncing wise was Healing D Vision. I know there are others that slip off beat, but I don't recall any off the top of my head that were severe enough to merit mention.

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Erm, what about it? I'll tell you. Once Pump machines started appearing in the US, Konami sued Andamiro, too.Konami felt threatened. Konami won, and Andamiro was not to appear in the US market again (though that doesn't explain PIUPRO - there may have been a time aspect of the lawsuit). History repeats itself, eh?

There's no factual basis to establish that as the specific reason. But hey, Pump still exists - and in massive quantity. Looks like you don't know where the NX machines are. = / *tsk tsk*

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YES, dominant. Hypocritcial Konami couldn't let any other dance game company in the US, for whatever reason. Andamiro and Roxor got sued.

Andamiro is still here, Mr. Fanboy.

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SN only exists because there's a market again.I assure you that if Roxor didn't make ITG, SN would not have existed.

We don't have any facts to establish that on. I wasn't in the boardroom when they concocted the release of SN and neither were you - so it will be a "mystery".

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And what the hell does that have to do with the fact the series died from EX? Apparently, there's this new game called "Dance Dance Revolution SuperNOVA" out in some arcades. Why don't you check it out.

You weren't there for that massive slump, were you. You entered the scene just as the slump appeared, so you wouldn't know about it. All sarcasm aside on your part, why don't you look at the timeline spread between the release of EX and SN. Some places in 2004 were JUST getting DDR Ex machines in the US, but where I was, it died. The only reason I can reasonably state why SN exists is that a new market emerged from all the schools lobbying to put DDR in P.E. Ever think of that one???

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It might not be the same, but trackers like NNR still existed for DDR scores. And so what if the game is more tech? Personally, I'm a tech player, yes. It's because I have more fun with the game if I'm competing. It's a drive. For some reason in your mind, it's bad to be tech. But that's just saying my way of having fun is wrong. If you don't like the community, you don't have to be a part of it.

Nobody really cared back in the day - and if they did, they took a picture...they didn't bother with scoreboards. I don't have a problem with tech play - you really should talk with other players in northern NJ and ask them about Nate. I mean you really should ask around.

Hlavco
Trick Member

Joined: 18 Jan 2004

41.

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:20 am Post subject:

People wrote:

Hlavco wrote:

Eh. I wish there were more slow, reading-challenge tens. Bag was MAN A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE EDITED THIS QUOTE.

Somebody said it wasn't a ten anymore after speed mods. That's pretty obvious. That's why I called it a "reading-challenge" ten. I'm pretty sure Konami rates stepcharts based on default settings. And when I play a reading-challenge song, I play it for the reading challenge. Sped up, it's just another average song.

Somebody else said it shouldn't be a ten, even on 1x. I disagree, and think it's plenty hard. I had to listen to someone stomping to it to get the weird rhythms down. But foot ratings are always being argued about, so whatever.

I guess what I'm saying is, I want more hard slow songs. Sometimes I like to be challenged without exhausting myself.
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Joined: 28 Mar 2002

42. Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject:

I think when bag was made, they didn't anticipate people playing it on 5/8x speed. If you play it on 1x, it's a solid 10 - but once you space it out, the "difficulty" of the song lessens. It would be like putting Chaos on a C setting. You can do the same thing to ITG songs (like vertex) - by having one player use a C setting while the other one plays it 1/1.5x, but are you playing it at its legitimate difficulty? Some players do the same trick with bloodrush and vertex^2 - and maybe this lowers the overall difficulty of the song. Maybe half the "achievement" is knowing how to get past the obstacle of sight reading.

QWERTYkid911
Trick Member

Joined: 18 Aug 2005

43.

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject:

Legendary N8 wrote:

Made in 2004. What's the ms difference now?

As of SN2, 12ths, 24ths and so on are quantized to the nearest 128th note.

And I really still don't get bag being a 10. I passed it on my first try on 1x. I guess it's matter of opinion.

I personally don't like the lack of decent hard charts. They are eaither too easy, or way too hard. There are a few good 10s, mainly the old ones, but now they are all about jumps at 400 BPM and stops.

XahGee
Trick Member

Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Location: AWESOME FUN LAND!!!

44.

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:27 pm Post subject:

Legendary N8 wrote:

I think when bag was made, they didn't anticipate people playing it on 5/8x speed.

If you play it on 1x, it's a solid 10 - but once you space it out, the "difficulty" of the song lessens. It would be like putting Chaos on a C setting.

You can do the same thing to ITG songs (like vertex) - by having one player use a C setting while the other one plays it 1/1.5x, but are you playing it at its legitimate difficulty? Some players do the same trick with bloodrush and vertex^2 - and maybe this lowers the overall difficulty of the song.

Maybe half the "achievement" is knowing how to get past the obstacle of sight reading.

That's why if you use C-mods to pass a song on ITG that has stops or bpm changes, it won't record the sorce as a high score, because you took part of the difficulty out. Bloodrush on x4 is harder than Bloodrush on C-450.

Last edited by XahGee on Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total

ICNH
Trick Member

Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Location: Mahwah, NJ

45.

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Made in 2004. What's the ms difference now?

Um, what? It's not like SN fixed it. It's the same. Apparently SN2 slightly corrected it, but it's not 100% better.

Quote:

Why? PSMH/PSMO were difficulties that were legitimately challenging. It always irked me that PSMH was just PS on mirror for most of the song, but PSMO's chart is pretty damn good.

The slowdown wasn't necessary and the song blows (as a whole).

That's your opinion. Don't say EX was a disaster because of PSM, because one song's suckishness doesn't merit hatred for the game.

Quote:

My English is quite fine, thanks. In fact, your very latest post proves my point.

Oh? How so? No explanation?

I didn't think it was necessary, but I'll spell it out for you. I posted saying that you're refuting every idea. You, in turn, quoted a ton of my post and said that I need to work on my English if I think that you're refuting every idea. Yet the majority of that post was countering my arguments. Hypocrite, much?

Quote:

I'm not saying there weren't problems before, Sir English Major. I'm saying that since SN, there have been more.

More? Like how much more? So you have been taking notes for the last 7 years?

I don't need to if I know that SN sucks much more than pre-SN mixes, for reasons I've stated in my previous posts. Seriously, what the hell does that have to do with anything? You're trying so hard to make yourself sound smart; it's actually quite amusing.

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This proves how new to the scene you are.

A response coming from someone who countered an argument asking me to elaborate. :roll:

Quote:

No, I think I'll blame the pad quality on how Betson created them. The structure most certainly has changed, and not mystically at all. Please tell me you can understand the simple fact that Japan =/= America. Two locations, different distributors, different inners of the machines. Here's a quote from Ho-Man I found just for little ol' you.

Ho-Man wrote:

- Having worked on both SuperNOVA and pre-SuperNOVA machines, I have to say that the build quality on the pre-SuperNOVA machines is far better. And I'm talking about the US SuperNOVA machines. I don't know if Betson is manufacturing them themselves or have contracted it out to some other company (probably the latter), but the quality of many of the components they're using just seem lower.

Metal pieces have more flex, wiring is not as tidy and seems to have issues more frequently, connectors break, etc. I do agree that the monitor they're using in SuperNOVA is quite nice, but that's just an off-the-shelf part. The manufacturing of the rest of the game seems overall of lower quality.

Work on your facts a bit more, k?

And, excuse me, I was actually competing in DL. I saw first-hand how crappy the pads were. I was dropping holds and getting misses for no reason. Even look at the right machine, which was used for regular - I played on it on Friday after I qualified. You'd think that a machine a MAXIMUM of two years old could handle players just fine. After all, pre-SN machines have stood the test of time (I play at a location that upgraded from 4th mix - pads are still wonderful). Even Liam, a 7 year old, couldn't play correctly because the sensitivity was so awful. He's played DDR with me on multiple occasions, and he's never had a problem. Why, then, were the pads so crappy AFTER they'd been thoroughly cleaned (it was the "nationals" after all)? Answer, if you still can't figure it out: SuperNOVA machines suck.

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You ever seen a nintendo inside a sega genesis? I rest my case.

Okay... Thanks for using a completely irrelevant analogy to back up an argument you don't even have... Do you even remember that you were talking about likeness rights?

Quote:

Sorry, wrong again. Marvellous's didn't even exist before Extreme. Max and Max2 don't feature the flashing - go try it out yourself.

You've been wrong on multiple occasions. Check up there.
Oh, I would. Because all you're doing is pulling bullcrap out of your ass for the sake of pulling bullcrap out of your ass.

Quote:

Yes, I like ITG. I actually fluctuate between the two companies every 6 months or so. It depends which one's more interesting for me at the time. But besides that, you're wrong.

Regarding bolded: First of all, it's up to 1 mil. Second, it's more of a theoretical thing, that could happen in the future. Perfect are worth marvellous - 10. If there are enough steps/freezes in a song, it's possible that if I get all perfects, the -10s all added together could put be under 990,000, so I wouldn't get a AAA. Yes, people are getting AAA's with greats - why? You said you had complaints since 3rd mix about the grading system being changed and the timing windows constantly changing. Well, Mr. Hypocrite, it seems both those things have happened in SN2. So why aren't you opposed to recent DDRs, when the past ones irked you?

Quote:

You'd win that bet. I did. Truthfully, I started on both Max2 and EX. But that's beside the point.

It's a natural bias. It's why I have a bias in favor of older mixes. Own up to it - I do.

But it's not true. I've played on DDR, 3rd Mix ver2, USA, 4th Mix, 5th Mix, 6th Mix, 7th Mix, 8th Mix, and SN. I've played SN2 through the PS2 game. I see the series going at a steady incline up to Extreme, then dropping at SN. When I say that I like Ex better, it's not because I'm partial to it since I grew up on it. It was just a great game. I don't know why you think that my logic has to be based on bias. My logic isn't like yours. Mine makes sense.

Quote:

Red Zone's syncing was perfect, and it got changed. In Flowers, DoLL, and Wookie Wookie, you have to step late. In Vanity Angel, I believe you have to step dramatically early (or late, not entirely sure). A lot of the songs at DL were chosen because the person knew how offsync it was, and was anticipating that his opponent didn't. Hell, that's what I did for Flowers.

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There's no factual basis to establish that as the specific reason. But hey, Pump still exists - and in massive quantity. Looks like you don't know where the NX machines are. = / *tsk tsk*

NX MACHINES ARE IN KOREA. There's no factual basis that says you're instantly right. My info is true based on the knowledge I've gained through trolling this forum for the past 4 years. Konami sued Andamiro out of America. Pump is in Korea. Fact.

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YES, dominant. Hypocritcial Konami couldn't let any other dance game company in the US, for whatever reason. Andamiro and Roxor got sued.

Andamiro is still here, Mr. Fanboy.

In Korea. Not in America. Wait for it...

Quote:

SN only exists because there's a market again.I assure you that if Roxor didn't make ITG, SN would not have existed.

We don't have any facts to establish that on. I wasn't in the boardroom when they concocted the release of SN and neither were you - so it will be a "mystery".

You're right. It's speculation. But there's enough support to back it up based on how rushed SuperNOVA was, looking at its release date and the date that all the info for the trial Konami v. Roxor needed to be in by.

Quote:

Again with my history of DDR, which has no bearing on this conversation. But I'll humor you. I KNOW there was a slump. Konami had told everyone that no DDR would ever be coming back. That is FACT. DDR is back.

PE classes run on home versions. So why would Konami make arcade releases when they could save money on parts by just releasing a home version game?

Quote:

Why? What's my motiviation?

Seriously, I could continue debating with you like this. There are just so many holes in your arguments and you're arguing with me hoping that I don't know more than you. This way, you seem like the smart person, I go "oh, okay, I didn't know that..." and crawl in a corner. Sorry, but even if I have been on the scene for so much less time than you, I sure as hell know more than you.

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Trick Member

Joined: 28 Mar 2002

46.

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject:

DJ QWERTY wrote:

Legendary N8 wrote:

Made in 2004. What's the ms difference now?

Passing it isn't too bad on 1x, but if you wanted to AAA it, that proves to be a bit more challenging. I don't think difficulty is based on how easy it is to pass a chart, but I'm sure that factors into it.

ÊÉb sÄ± Ê01É¹ÇÉ¥s
Trick Member

Joined: 16 Jul 2007

47.

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:20 pm Post subject:

Legendary N8, in this thread wrote:

I don't have a problem with tech play

Legendary N8, a few threads down wrote:

not that I really liked tech players in DDR anyway.

Huh?

But really, my main question is: How can you argue about PA/timing issues when you're not a tech player?

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Trick Member

Joined: 28 Mar 2002

48.

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Um, what? It's not like SN fixed it. It's the same. Apparently SN2 slightly corrected it, but it's not 100% better.

Obviously you didn't read when that was posted. Can you verify that it's the same? How do you make something "100 percent better"?

Quote:

That's your opinion. Don't say EX was a disaster because of PSM, because one song's suckishness doesn't merit hatred for the game.

I didn't call it a disaster. Nice reading comprehension. I also didn't say I "hated" it either.

Quote:

This doesn't verify your argument. Try again. Also your phrase here is ironic. Read your statements after you write them and you will figure it out.

Quote:

I'm bathing in irony here. Now you are using deflection tactics and weasel words to avoid answering me with an intelligent response. You haven't really told me anything.

Quote:

A response coming from someone who countered an argument asking me to elaborate. :roll:

Of course I'm asking you to elaborate - you seriously lack hard data and (enough) experience to warrant expert opinion. Sorry, I reject your statements unless I get hard data.

Quote:

Who is this guy and why should I care what his assessment is?

Quote:

Work on your facts a bit more, k?

This isn't enough data to substantiate anything. I would need to hear something from the manufacturer. How are these "facts"? Damn. If it came from Betson, I would say yes, they are facts (facts would involve something like "specs"). But no, it didn't. Sorry, facts denied.

Quote:

And, excuse me, I was actually competing in DL. I saw first-hand how crappy the pads were. I was dropping holds and getting misses for no reason. Even look at the right machine, which was used for regular - I played on it on Friday after I qualified.

It happened the years before too, ask Phreck. It's the stage. I know who you are and that you were there. Oddly enough I didn't see you complain then. Hmm, a bit more verbal online, eh?

Quote:

You'd think that a machine a MAXIMUM of two years old could handle players just fine. After all, pre-SN machines have stood the test of time (I play at a location that upgraded from 4th mix - pads are still wonderful). Even Liam, a 7 year old, couldn't play correctly because the sensitivity was so awful.He's played DDR with me on multiple occasions, and he's never had a problem. Why, then, were the pads so crappy AFTER they'd been thoroughly cleaned (it was the "nationals" after all)? Answer, if you still can't figure it out: SuperNOVA machines suck.

If you are going to make an argument, it's best not to use extremes such as "so awful", or blow statements out of proportion - it just makes your argument look childish. I saw him play and he didn't seem to be having any (serious) problems that wouldn't come up in any other tournament. Even since it was "nationals", the problems that occurred while I was there were far less than a regional or local tournament. I don't know why you gotta blow it out of proportion - we had people vouching for you guys if the pads messed up anyway, so it's not like you were actually penalized.

Quote:

Okay... Thanks for using a completely irrelevant analogy to back up an argument you don't even have... Do you even remember that you were talking about likeness rights?

You didn't get my pun here. Sega and Nintendo are both consoles. They are used to both play games by the insertion of a cartridge. They both use controllers. Yet, there was never a legal issue. They are both video game consoles, they use the same parts (the programming is obviously different). There was never a likeness rights problem - why do you think that was?

Quote:

You've been wrong on multiple occasions. Check up there.
Oh, I would. Because all you're doing is pulling bullcrap out of your ass for the sake of pulling bullcrap out of your ass.

You know, for someone so sure of their argument, you sure do make handy use of that ad hominem cliche phrase a lot. Also, when you get further down, you might feel a bit different about your current "position".

Quote:

You're arguing under theory and presenting it here? Everything up to this point you have mentioned has been speculative cause you haven't provided evidence to support your argument. You really did reach with your argument here. You can't AAA with a dropped freeze before SN2, so why would you expect anything different? Of course you won't get 99mil with a dropped freeze and all perfects because that obviously wouldn't fit the structure of achieving a AAA up to this point. Things went for the positive in this case, a bigger timing window, marvelous timing in play, and no "perfect AAA". I have nothing to be hypocritical about.

Quote:

You can't establish anything about what the arcade is going to be like in home version. Were you around for that whole "home version ____ doesn't count?" There's a reason why. It's because they are different. If the logic makes sense to you that you can establish facts by comparing it with your home version experience, you go right ahead.

Quote:

You know what the irony (I'm getting sick of pointing out how often this has occurred with your posting) is here, people played the songs anyway, despite knowing they are off, and used them as picks in DL. I guess that represents its ultimate failure, right? Somehow, this doesn't seem right... you whored a mistimed song for the purpose of beating people at DL with it. Why does this feel so strange??? Oh I know why, you are adopting the very thing you detest. Your complaints just lost credibility.

Quote:

LMFAO. Go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_It_Up

PIU NX Worldwide release: December 15th, 2006

http://www.ddrfreak.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=123280

What's this? A PIU NX tournament in 2006...

and this?

http://www.arcadegamesuperstore.com/pump-it-up-nx.htm

I can buy a PIU NX machine right here in the USA.

I love your facts...

Quote:

In Korea. Not in America. Wait for it...

I played on a PIU machine in an arcade in California - for other evidence of the obvious existence of it here in the USA, try going to the links above.

Quote:

That's really heavy speculation. How "rushed" was it? Can we ascertain that it was more or less rushed than anything else that is manufactured? Konami was pumping out mixes almost yearly before extreme. Think about it, the first machine was created in 1998, and this is 2008. SN2 is the "10th mix". So, they were averaging at least one new machine per year.

Quote:

Your use of "fact" is not correct. Please try to use it correctly. Konami would do it because they know those kids go to arcades, bowling alleys, malls, etc. Since they see it in PE, they will want to play it elsewhere - it's a marketing tactic. Your history of DDR has a lot of bearing on this conversation because you weren't there. You don't know that there's pump machines in the USA, you don't know what the scene was like before extreme, you don't know what the crowds were like. So, based on that, you don't know that what they are doing is trying to revive that scene so they can go back to cranking out mixes.

Quote:

Clearly you don't know more than me since you didn't even know NX was in the USA (as well as other PIU machines). I wouldn't get cocky at all just on that, let alone your lack of knowledge as a whole on the community. You don't have motivation cause you are just some ITG fanboy who wants to complain about things for its own sake, be a score queen, and act like your existence in the community is somehow justified, but not adequately justify what is worth complaining about and why.

You're like every other kid I see in the new scene, and it's really sad. When you are ready to argue seriously, and give me something to actually reflect on that would actually give me pause, let me know. Until then, why don't you take that immaturity of yours, crawl into that corner over there, and grow up.

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Joined: 28 Mar 2002

49.

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject:

MUTE+(plus) wrote:

Legendary N8, in this thread wrote:

I don't have a problem with tech play

Legendary N8, a few threads down wrote:

not that I really liked tech players in DDR anyway.

Huh?

But really, my main question is: How can you argue about PA/timing issues when you're not a tech player?

Like this: I can AAA and it doesn't mean anything. I don't really care if I get a AAA or not. A tech player would.

Neon Kel
Trick Member

Joined: 01 Mar 2002
Location: Diamond Bar, CA

50. Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:02 am Post subject:

Why though? Why argue about timing when you don't care about AAAs? _________________ Facebook Recall

chennymountain
Trick Member

Joined: 06 Jan 2008

51. Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject:

Everything about DDR Extreme 2. It completely failed. Some of the challenges are so hard, almost impossible (do they know how hard it is to AAA a song? and you have to do it twice!) and the timing on some of the songs is way off. And some of the songs are just plain impossible (mainly the Fascination series.)

ICNH
Trick Member

Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Location: Mahwah, NJ

52. Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject:

You know what? Since winning this argument is so important to you, fine. You have won. I'm done wasting time trying to back up my valid beliefs, but whatever. A lot of this is personal opinion, and I'm not here to bash you. So I'm done. Have a nice day. _________________ Who posts here anymore? DDRecall. \| Groovestats. Challenges? \| YouTube Vids.

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Joined: 28 Mar 2002

53.

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject:

Neon Kel wrote:

Why though? Why argue about timing when you don't care about AAAs?

My only hang up with regard to timing is analyzing the product from a business sense, not necessarily my personal inclinations. If I knew my target market had expressed problems concerning the quality of my product, it should be of interest to my organization to prioritize its correction.

That's its failure as a business - not really considering the consumption process of the consumer.

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Joined: 28 Mar 2002

54.

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject:

OLC.ICNH wrote:

You know what? Since winning this argument is so important to you, fine. You have won. I'm done wasting time trying to back up my valid beliefs, but whatever. A lot of this is personal opinion, and I'm not here to bash you. So I'm done. Have a nice day.

Go find a pump machine while you are at it - you're missing out.

ICNH
Trick Member

Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Location: Mahwah, NJ

55. Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:27 pm Post subject:

I do play a little - the Zero machine that's sort of near me is so expensive, though. _________________ Who posts here anymore? DDRecall. \| Groovestats. Challenges? \| YouTube Vids.

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Trick Member

Joined: 28 Mar 2002

56. Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject:

I hate it when they put the machines right next to each other.

Suko
Trick Member

Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Location: Lynnwood, WA

57. Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:47 am Post subject:

The worst thing to happen to DDR since SN....no more SO DEEP. This discussion is over, might as well send this one off to the archives. P.S. OLC & N8, I've been reading through your posts for a while now, I must say that neither of you are wrong, but N8, you do seem to have to comment on nearly everything everyone has said in this post. Furthermore, I have been playing since 2001 and I can easily say that 2002 & 2003 (when Extreme premiered) where probably the most active times for our community (in regards to number of serious players and activities such as tournaments, etc). At least this is true where I'm from; California and Washington (two of the largest ddr communities in the nation). _________________ "Arcades have gone away but the culture is not gone." DDRecall \| Groovestats \| Beatspace \| UI Bemani Club \| Suko's Shirt Shack

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Trick Member

Joined: 28 Mar 2002

58. Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject:

2002-2003 was really hopping. Everywhere I went it was absolutely insane.

Lobster Jesus
Trick Member

Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Location: No thanks

59.

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:58 pm Post subject:

Legendary N8 wrote:

Quote:

Konami had a great thing going for them back in 2003.

LMFAO no they didn't. The scene was already dying by then. Ask any veteran.

At least in Japan it was dying. From what I remember, it was booming in the US and from around 03-early 05 were the best times i've had playing DDR at the arcade. Then again i'm not a player from 98 or anything, but it was still pretty populated and a hell of a lot more of a social experience than it is today.
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