Devout Stealth homepad

[Tenchi50]

local arcade?
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Recall|Goovestats Challenges please
[quote:2aaeee914c="Xantar"]I'm not even posting my name after Guy Love. He frick won the thread I don't even know what this thread is about but he won it.[/quote]

[infamous360]

[ChilliumBromide]

Looks like 4 buttons would still be $30 through them, but that would be after shipping.

I might try making some of my own buttons; I've got a design that should work. No microswitches or things like that, but they should be a lot better than spending $7-$10 a button.
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I used to be active here lol

[methejuggler]

Just thought I'd post a followup with my experiences so far.


The pads are still working great... the first week or so after making them, I had to tweak a couple of the sensors, but in the month since then, I havn't touched a tool to either, and they're both going strong....

In fact, last weekend I had a LAN party where both pads were set up for DDR in a dedicated space, and they got quite extensive use by about 15 random people who took turns abusing them.... I had no difficulties at all, and they held up extremely well under the pressure.

My brother and one of his friends were doing 9/10 footers without issues on these pads at the party... he pulled off many many AA's and PC on standard songs (and even once on expert I believe)... I managed a few AA's myself on standard... I'm not as good as him =P

I was a little worried when four guys got on one pad and each took 1 arrow each to get through Xepher challenge mode.... but the pad made it through fine, so I suppose that says something about durability =P


The pads were on a painted concrete floor the entire time, and barely moved at all.... they DID move more than on my carpet though... I had to adjust them maybe once every 30 songs or so, but I don't think that's a huge deal...


As for the one person saying they had issues with 1/8th note into jump combos.... one of my arrows had an issue with taps like that early on, but I fixed it by adjusting the cardboard and torqueing down the bolts more...
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My home pads:
http://picasaweb.google.com/cjmanca/DDRHomePads

[AAA_dreams]

Nice to know the pads are working out well. I just started on mine tonight. The comment about making the sheet-metal side of the steps the "ground" is gold. I'm going to be using the electronics from a soft-pad, and as such I'm going to see about making a mini-button in the upper diagonals. essentially make a mini-step button, and then drop it in the upper corners of the..uh.. upper corners. ... right. I'll post pics when it's done, that'll clear that up.

I've never played an arcade DDR, so I don't know the heights on the arrows vs. non-arrow parts, so I'm flying blind with my pad, but I went with 3/4" steps (plus whetever the sheet metal adds), and then for the diagonals I've got 1" pieces. So I guess it will be slightly less than 1/4" difference.

I've made some other design changes, but very minor. I've made a lot of different things when it comes to wood, but this is definitely new territory for me. I'm already seeing issues with the fitting of the sheet metal. Fortunately I have enough metal for 10 step panels, so I can afford to mess up on a couple.

We'll see how this goes. Convinced my wife to let me buy an Ignition 3.0 soft pad as a backup plan should this go horridly wrong, so if all fails, I won't be stuck with no dance pad at all.

on edit: A suggestion for those looking at the pad that devout has put together. The wood panels for the "steps" are suggested to be cut at 10 7/8ths inches, and the sheet metal cuts are listed as 12" x 12".
if you cut out the .5" square on the corners, it doesn't appear to be quite enough.
I don't know much about sheet metal, but on my first step, the corners seemed to overlap. I would suggest changing the corner cuts from .5" x .5" to 9/16 x 9/16 (decimal is .625")
I'll see if I can put up some pictures or something to show the difference. maybe i"m doing it wrong also, hard to say, as this is way new to me.

[devout]

[AAA_dreams]

well, things are progressing. Not to smoothly, but I guess it's good as I've never don this sort of thing.
Have discovered that while I know how to solder, copper hates me.

oh! And guess what. Copper doesn't cool off as fast as aluminum.


I've done lots of cutting with a hacksaw using aluminum, so, cut a piece of copper tubing off and presto, no issue, just pick up the piece and.... @^(#$^%!!! That's still hot!?!?

anyway, lesson learned. No serious injury. It was quite funny, to me at least.

The biggest problem I have run into so far is shaping the sheet metal. While all four are finished, I'm going to see if I can find another way to do it. I'm thinking that if you build a frame that is 11" x 11" on the *inside*, and make it out of that thick corner rod steel (a right angle shape in cross section, with holes along it every inch or so) that you might be able to use it like a sleeve and just push it down over the sheet metal that is sandwiched between the steps.

I've got almost enough material for another pad. Base, sheet metal, screws, wire, etc. Just need the extra wood for the diagonals.

oh, one more thing. 3M spray adhesive. not only does it go on super even, it has great tack.

[AAA_dreams]

devout: i'm a little confused here.

The wood for the steps is cut to 10 7/8"

The cardboard strips are cut to 10"

But I'm getting a bit of an overlap when I put them on the step. They are, as your tutorial suggests, centered 1/2" from the edge meaning there's about a 1/4" gap between the cardboard and the outer edge of the step. The pics you have on the site, it looks like there is quite a bit of room. Are they 9"?

Also, the quote from the tutorial: "See how the cardboard in the above photo stops about 3/4" short from the corners? That is a good thing. Take a sharp knife and remove any tape or cardboard from a little square about 3/4" out from each corner of the step."

Is this hole cut essentially to keep the cardboard and tape out of the way of the head of the screws that hold the steps to the base board?

Thanks.

[devout]

Yeah, 10" might be too long, i just eyeballed that measurement off the photo, I didnt actually measure the strips when I cut them.

The centering 1/2" from the edge is referring to the *long* edge of the cardboard strip. The long edge should end up about 1/4" from the corresponding long edge of the wood. The short edges should be about 3/4" from the two edges of the wood perpendicular to the axis of that strip (got it?)

The cutting of the hole is not just to keep the screws out of the way of the cardboard, but it's to create a recess that the screw head can push the sheet metal down into. the idea is the screws push down in the corners, while the strips push up along the edges, which gives it a very slight bulge and ensures that the sheet metal does not contact the foil unless you're actually stepping on it. If you leave out the hole, it may still work, but if your sheet metal is slightly concave it might cause the step to be always pushed. It is also (even more) important to make sure there's no exposed foil in this corner that could create a circuit between the foil/screw/sheet metal.

hope this helps
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the world's most refined homepad: devout stealth

Almost-finished non-Stealth homepad for sale, just add sensors! see here: http://www.ddrfreak.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=8921579#8921579

[AAA_dreams]

awesome. thanks. I've got the long edge of the cardboard at 1/4" was just the ends I was confused on.

I'll meander back to the garage. I have two more steps to go after cutting the holes in the cardboard/tape on the current one.

Thanks again.

[AAA_dreams]

well, the first step is dead. :/

I've got the sheet metal on and screwed down, but there is no give at all in the center.

I"m going to get a volt meter or something, but I'm pretty sure that it's pretty much like the cardboard isn't even there. back to square one.

edit: ok. I think I've got it working. What I did was cut 4 more cardboard strips (only about 1/4" wide though, and taped them on top of the existing ones.

if I can get the other 3 to do this, it will be good. I'm amazed at how little give there is when you step on it.

[methejuggler]

yeah, most of the panels have basicly no give.... only a couple of mine have noticable give, the others feel solid for the most part...

I had a PS2->USB converter hooked up (Trio Linker Plus), and a laptop in my garage where I was building it.... I did the controller soldering first (while waiting for stain to dry on the pine/plywood), and then was able to do testing on each panel as I made it instantly in the joystick setup.

I suggest this for two reasons, actually - first, to make sure the panel works (duh)... second (and arguably more importantly), to make sure it's responsive.

With a couple of my panels, I found that the panel would hold for another split second after releasing (the laptop display would show it held for a moment longer after letting go).... not a huge amount, but enough to mess up quick taps....

If you don't catch this now, then when it's done you'll be cursing about goods or boos when playing, since it will think you're holding the panel when you actually let go and tapped again.


The solution is usually just adjusting cardboard (possibly adding another strip, but I'd check distances from the edge first), and tightening down further if possible.


Make sure that whatever circuit tester/laptop display you're using registers an instant depress as soon as you stop holding the panel =P
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My home pads:
http://picasaweb.google.com/cjmanca/DDRHomePads

[AAA_dreams]

methejuggler: Thanks for the tips. I actually purchased a circuit tester recently. Kinda a pain in the butt one because it doesn't have it's own power source, however with a 9v battery and the testers alligator clip, I can get it working just fine. Anyway, it has LEDs that light up when there is a connection. It's response is great, even with freezes. given, I've only used my hands.
I have concerns that if the sheet metal is not quite fitting right that it will cause the screws to come loose. just takes time I guess.
All four steps are now secured to the base board and operational.
Will try to get some pics. I did some work with putting the wires in so that they are not in the way, and so they all come out near the top of the pad.

[AAA_dreams]

Done, and working quite nicely.
Picture of the pad overall:


picture of the buttons (top to bottom: X, Select, Start, O)


(click images for bigger pics)

[slvrshdw]

wow, that looks really nice!
the only thing missing is the back thing so you dont fall and hurt your ankle

also, where did you get those buttons?
they look really good.
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[AAA_dreams]

The thing in the back? You mean the bar? I've got some extra wood on the back so that in the future I can add a bar, but for now this is going to be just like a number of the other pads available for playing at home.

As for the buttons. Well.. lol
They are doorbell buttons.

[Maliciant]

I'm planning to give building this a try tomorrow. I plan to build two controllers. This will be my first home made controller, I've been looking at doing it for some time but the cost of a home made controller is pretty steep in raw materials, usually about $100 is what it seems to run... and more important seeing things like 14-16 hour build time is scary too, I consider there to be a chance of failure, and I'd hate to invest that kind of money and time and then end up out a controller. I live in an apartment and lack the woodworking tools too so that has contributed to me not building a pad but this design is simple enough that I'm pretty confident in it, and the price of the materials is also very favorable (before my adjustments below).

I'm a little worried about denting the sheet metal, so this might be a no-shoes pad... on the other hand I don't like the idea of playing barefoot and these might be too slick with socks, so I might have to get over my fears of denting the metal anyway. I may look into finding some kind of slipper that would fit pretty snug and have a soft rubber bottom, or a pair of swimming shoes. May also look for some kind of rubber coating of some sort that I could spray onto the steps, for grip. Not sure if anything like that exists that would stick to the metal but some cocking (sp?) in thin strips may work well here, just throwin ideas out here though, I'm hoping that I'm just overly paranoid about the denting potential.

I plan to make a few mods to the design, to include X O select and start buttons, I'd love arcade style buttons but I'm not sure I'm keen to pay that price for those buttons which would nearly double the cost of the controllers from what I've read... I have to admit those doorbells look pretty good and I bet they were comparatively cheap, but can you press them easily with shoes on or do you play bare-foot and just jab a toe into the button? What did the doorbell buttons cost you? I might look for something uglier that I know I can press easily with shoes on.

I plan to use nuts and bolts (and washers!) to hold the sheet metal to the steps to the base, I might skip the nuts and look for some rubber feet with the built in threading. I'll be playing on carpet, so I really don't need the rubber stoppers, but I think they'd be a nice touch and I already know I'd greatly prefer to use bolts for anything I might have to remove and replace so the wood stripping out isn't an issue. Hopefully the rubber feet will be fairly cheap, otherwise I'll aim to use nuts and recess them in some

I am building two controllers so I can play doubles, so another mod I'm planning to make is a way to link the controls together. This will probably involve two holes on each controller (front and back end) and a U shaped bracket that will slide into it. It will most likely just rest in a slot, I think these pads will be heavy enough that they won't move much on their own but this would be a fairly cheap and easy thing to add.

I'll be using a konami soft pad and a gamestop soft pad, the konami pad always has been a piece of junk compared to the gamestop pad which has suffered through 6 months of regular play, either way I'm looking forward to the upgrade. I'm hoping to report back here that my apartment has an hourly rate for playing DDR after making these pads (just kidding, but maybe if my surround sound hadn't blown up... then I'd have a door fee...). Time to re-review the plans one last time and make sure my shopping list is complete for the weekend.

Editting in: If anyone has a detailed image/digram of how the wires were routed from the steps to the controller that would be handy. I'd rather not have wires outside of the controller which seems to be the way the guide says. I'm thinking about ways to route the wires inside the control, though I guess drilling through the base and running the wires under is OK since I intend to have feet. (After reviewing methejuggler's images I realize rubber feet threaded for the bolts is probably harder and definitely expensive, screwing rubber feet into the base is a simpler approach)

One more edit in since my post just wasn't long enough yet... I think the wiring I'll drill straight down through base, sodder the ground either to the nut or preferably the outer edge of the washer.
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Dandelion Games

[Maliciant]

I'm pretty far into construction, my sensors are working, but I discovered around the point of hammering the sheet metal that it seems like 1.25" or 1.5" in would have worked better for the holes drilled in the sheet metal. Either that or I managed to misread something.


Radio Shack $9.87 (6 push buttons)
Radio Shack $3.51 (2 push buttons at diff radio shack)
Lowe's $111.24 (Shelving, 4'x8' 3/4" professional grade birch, nuts, bolts, washers, screws, some spray glue)
Ace Hardware $27.71 (2 12"x24" sheet metal, sand paper, metal snips, masking tape)
Lowe's $5.69 (1 12"x24" sheet metal)
Home Depot $5.52 (1 12"x24" sheet metal)
Lowe's $7.93 (Washers that it turns out I am not using, I made an extra trip for these too).
Total for two pads is 171.47, about 60 more than I was hoping to end up spending, and at least 7.93 of it was a total waste of money. That's still half the price of a single CF which is probably where my money would go if I bought a commercial pad and I was strongly tempted.

It was incredibly hard to find enough of the right sheet metal, doesn't help that my first trip to lowe's I was thinking aluminum sheets... they were so much different in price that I suspected something was off and most of it was badly warped and in odd sizes that would be a great deal of waste and involved way more cutting (I've discovered I'm not so keen on cutting sheet metal, and not very good at it either). I have had zero issues with the sensors so far, it takes a fair amount of hand pressure to trigger them, I figure that'll probably be fine, I weight 210lbs and I'm willing to bet I have no issues of sensitivity in normal use.

My build time is looking to be a little over 6 hours per pad, sadly that's with help, neither one of us having a lot of experience building things (though I've done soldering and wiring stuffs before). Sadly had to call it quits before getting the final steps... but tomorrow I should have both pads finished. One pad needs the extra buttons drilled and finish mounting the sensors and diagnals, wire to the controller. The second pad is all cut already but haven't hammered out the sheet metal yet... so the second one has probably 3 more hours of labor to go before it's ready to wire to a controller.

I'm pretty psyched to get this project done, I was hoping to finish it much sooner in the weekend so I could spend some time breaking it in. I will post pictures of the finished pads once I actually finish them, thought it might be a low quality pic (wouldn't want my lack of wood working skillz to be too obvious by the cracks between some of the pads that I'm sure will be there).
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Dandelion Games

[ChilliumBromide]

I put $50.00 in my paypal account to find out that Happ doesn't take paypal.

Maliciant, could you get a photo of the pushbuttons you got at radioshack? There's one within biking distance of me, so if they carry decent ones, I'll try there.
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I used to be active here lol

[Maliciant]

They are about half inch across, half inch tall above where they'd line up with the wood, they are NOT arcade style buttons. They seem pretty solid, they came in packs of two (one red, one black). These sizes are approximate due to all the stuff being at my brothers house (with a garage and the tools and again, the space to work on something like this). I'm at my apartment so I can't really get the stuff to look at but I did find on the radio shack site the buttons I bought.

Radio Shack buttons This is a picture of the black button, it also has a red button. Like the sheet metal I had to go to more than one store to get enough of these. It's about 1.75 per button with tax locally here for me.

The metal part of the button has a nut shown, it unscrews, I expect to use a 3/8 drill into the shelving panel, I'm pretty sure that will provide enough space for the width of the button including the threaded portion. I am hoping that I can get good stability of the button using the threads shown in the picture, if not I will take a would drill and hollow out the other side of the partical board enough that the nut can be placed on the thread, I'm not sure if attempting to drill the partical board shelving will go over well so I'm going to try to avoid it. I have setup my wiring so that it goes though the bottom of the base board, these buttons may be long enough that you HAVE to do the same to use these buttons. I'll check this tomorrow. I'd say take a trip to radio shack and see what they have, unfortunately as a components store they don't have a real thrilling selecting of parts on hand anymore, you might find they have something better than what I found here.

Oh yeah, can you believe it, finding the kind of rubber feet I wanted to use, no luck, finding just regular rubber feet I could drill a screw through into the wood, no luck... it's lookin like I'll make feet with spare plywood and probably use some cheap rubber matting (possibly the rubber off the bottom of my soft pads) and glue or staple that to the feet, I don't want to staple since that'd be bad for hard floors, which I don't personally have, but I still want to try to do things as right as I can.
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Dandelion Games