Roxor lawsuit settled, Konami inherits ITG franchise

[Marq(uistadorous)]

[AA Bob]

[Wolfman Jake]

[DJTyrant]

[0rion]

Are you blind, or do you just have no deductive capabilities whatsoever?

Better yet, why don't you tell me about this wonderful version of In the Groove Konami's going to be making... without any of the artists, licenses, or programmers from the series working on it when they can simply continue to release games in their more-famous DDR franchise?

Are you just in denial, or is this really too hard to understand?
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-Sir "O"
There's a little yellow bird on my avatar. (Brawl FC: 4640-1720-6690)

[triad.spacefight]

Orion, why do you post flambait on a thread that is obviously devoid of any logical explanation of Konami killing off the series, as you so eloquently put it?

Just stop posting, please.
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Triad for life.

[DJTyrant]

Stop begging the question please X_X

Your lack of logic here is destroying this thread.

And you still didn't link me to any sort of press release saying ITG is cancelled.
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[0rion]

Lack of logic? Precisely WHAT isn't logical about what I've said?

What you seem to think is that Konami earned the rights to In The Groove but NOT Roxor, and in spite of the complete lack of business incentive or ANY of the groups and licenses closely associated with the game, they'll say "What the hell, let's just invest our money into this game we never wanted to exist in the first place."

More to the point, you take the fact that they don't post a single thing about a new In the Groove game coming out as a GOOD sign for the future's series? So, let me get this straight... they're planning on releasing In the Groove, in spite of the plethora of reasons they would NOT do it, and then they would say NOTHING about it?

Yes, that makes a lot of sense. WAY more than the company getting the rights to it and then not saying anything about it because they want it to quietly die.

THINK, for Christ's sake. I'm begging you. Just because I'm not being polite about spelling this out to you doesn't mean I'm any less right about this. Lack of logic? I'm the only one that seems to be USING logic to draw a real conclusion, other than "I can't IMAGINE what this means! This is SO unprecidented!"

Look, just saying that you don't LIKE what I'm saying does nothing to refute it. And the fact that you hate the idea so much - and I do, too - should be all the more reason that you should accept the real possibility and even PROBABILITY that it's true instead of deluding yourself and saying that nothing has been said, so ITG still has a snowball's chance in hell.

If you can prove that Konami has serious plans to release ITG games, I will gladly eat my words. However, unless that happens, you have no choice but to acknowledge what is right in front of your face or continue to kid yourself and whine that I'm not playin' nice-like. This isn't the schoolyard, folks. If you hate what I'm saying, you're going to have to do a little better than "Nuh-uh!" or "That don't make no sense!"

If you can't show me the fault in my logic, then kindly stop crying about what I say.
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-Sir "O"
There's a little yellow bird on my avatar. (Brawl FC: 4640-1720-6690)

[Phrekwenci]

Folks,

Speculation isn't going to get any real answers here. ITG staff (from what I understand) isn't even sure themselves what is going to happen to their pride and joy at the present moment. All they know is what you know, that Konami has acquired ITG and has the potential to go one of several different routes with it.

We will all have to wait and see what will happen officially but for right now just accept the fact that Konami owns ITG.
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[Kilroy(ZTC)]

I'm sorry, but please stop making accusations that orions statements are illogical. They are perfectly valid inductive arguments. That doesn't make them right, but it sure as hell doesn't make them wrong. Although I very much doubt the people making these accusations have any understanding of what constitutes logic, and instead I think it's likely you guys are just bandying about words that sound like they might prevent you from having to adress anything. It's the same sort of method used when people avoid addressing the message of statements by stating that they "jump about from point to point". Effectively a cowards tool.

[triad.spacefight]

Does your foot flash? Does it have a blueish or greenish color next to it? Do you have "Roxor" or "Konami" staff under your name?

No, don't believe it does.

So, you in turn, are also speculating they will kill the series. Hrm.

Yet you ask for proof to refute your claims of death for the ITG series. Where exactly may I ask, is YOUR proof, good sir?

Honestly, I think I'm just going to respond/reply to Blue and Green footers. Anything else leads too much into the fanboy realms of both camps.
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Triad for life.

[0rion]

I never claimed to present proof. It is not logically possible to "prove" a negative. I claimed to - and did - come to a very reasonable conclusion based on a logical progression of thoughts stemmed from the facts that are available rather than complaining about not having the facts that aren't there yet. It's called deduction, and it's not just some word they up for the Sherlock Holmes books.

What I'm asking of you is to point out the fault - if any - in my logic, and do it in a reasonable, logical fashion instead of talking about how "No one knows for certain." Of course no one knows for certain. No one knows that they won't get shot in the back of the head while they walk down the street. No one knows that an alien spaceship isn't going to come down and destroy the planet tomorrow. No one knows that they're going to wake up one day and find a million dollars in their pocket that wasn't there before (Bill Gates and Ted Turner notwithstanding).

But when the available evidence points to the contrary, we usually feel relatively safe making the logical assumption that those things won't happen. And unless you tell me how - given the plethora of circumstantial evidence I've shown you to support what I say - my assumption isn't logical, you really have no legitimate basis to be arguing this with me.
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-Sir "O"
There's a little yellow bird on my avatar. (Brawl FC: 4640-1720-6690)

[Kyo Yuy]

[Kimone tf]

Did Roxor pay the artists of tracks on ITG royalties?
If so does this mean they'll be on Konami's payroll?

Just crossed my mind.

[Emptyeye]

Moving the discussion in a different direction, also worth noting is that despite what everyone claims is "obvious", we have no idea whether SN was REALLY created as a way to kill ITG2. Seriously. From what I understand (If anyone has some figures to prove me wrong, please feel free to link me to them), ITG1AC really didn't sell well at all and thus was NOT a threat to Konami; it was only when ITG2 came out (Which was, according to information contributed to GameFAQs by Plaguefox himself, June 18th, 2005) that Roxor's stock really took off. Even a lot of "hardcore" ITG fans seem to have the reaction that ITG1 wasn't that good for various reasons.

In order to prove that SN was created in response to/as a way to kill off ITG2, you'd have to prove that development on it didn't start until mid 2005 at earliest (The time that it was becoming clear that ITG2 WOULD be a threat). Unless you have that little "Konami Employee" title underneath your name, face it, you don't know this for sure (And given that SN was effectively a redesign of the game hardware and possibly software-wise, I somehow doubt that the turnaround time on it could have been that quick, even if it was rushed to release). Yeah, it was ANNOUNCED around January 2006, but it was likely in development long before that.

Was it a happy coincidence (For Konami) that they were able to release SN in a time when it would most strengthen their legal position? Sure. Was it rushed TO RELEASE with the intent of strengthening their legal case? Maybe, and one could even reasonably lean toward "probably". But was it SPECIFICALLY CREATED with the intent of strengthening said legal case (Which is what everyone seems to be claiming)? That's a lot harder for me to believe. Even with the "concept" for the game already in place, I think it would've been difficult for Konami to say "Hey, this other dancing game is a real threat, we should find a way to kill it", and then come up with a game for release only a year later (And realistically less than that, as my estimates presume that it was obvious on the day of ITG2's release that it was going to be the success that it was).
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[0rion]

First of all, I'd like to thank you for putting some actual thought into your response, Kyo.

However, there is no reason, financially or practically, to release any new games in a competing series that is essentially the same as their own flagship dancing game series.

I appreciate the thought given to what you've said, but the two are quite unrelated, and in fact, the example you've given only serves to further prove my point that new DDR games were potentially released as a direct result of their heated competition with Roxor, meaning that they would have all the more incentive to stick exclusively with their main series.
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-Sir "O"
There's a little yellow bird on my avatar. (Brawl FC: 4640-1720-6690)

[Wakka Lakka]

First off, logic tends to take a furlough somewhere after page 10 in these sorts of threads and at that point its anything goes. Complaining about anyone's lack of logic at this point is an excercise in hypocracy; logically one should have quit the thread before the multi-quote began if participation in a logical debate was the goal. At any rate, has anyone ever tried to make dance game themselves? It takes a lot of time and money. Like you Konami doesn't have any money. All of Konami's money is owned by the people who own the stock. IF the people who own the stock don't like what Konami does then they sell their Konami stock and buy some other company's stock, which they percieve to be a better deal. Quake doesn't need a patent on it's graphics engine because it is sheer technological wizadry. No one even stands a chance of duplicating it without investing millions and millions. Investors in Activision don't get rattled by the Quake knockoffs because they all either liscense the engine from Quake, or have inferior graphics which leads to inferior sales. DDR is a different story. Most of what makes DDR DDR is not computer code, but rather a concept of a closed feedback loop resulting in pleasurable human body motion. Even some junior high kid could program a simple timestamp sampler for a 4 switch sampled input. The technical aspects are obvious as evidence by the large number of stepmaina ports. If just anyone can churn out a 4-arrow scroller then Konami's market share is toast and there wont be investors, a DDR, or an ITG, period.

Devil's Advocate: It has been suggested, and I agree that the release of any dance game on the current (anual) basis fails to saturate the maket. In other words there would be more dance games sold (both DDR and ITG) if they came out more often. IN this case then ironicaly boths series would likely continue. I think the average consumer just wants new tracks to dance to. Heck they could slip in a reprint of MAX and people would buy it thinking it was new. Deer Hunter people, think Deer Hunter.

[Trexxen]

First off, I highly doubt that Konami was expecting this to happen when they started the lawsuit.

Now, the reason they supposedly started the suit was because they were worried about ITG killing their profits off their old Extremes (that supposedly were "dead" by then, but in reality only in Japan). Now, a while later, they have DDR and the RIGHTS to publish a new ITG game. Now what's to stop them from hiring the songwriters, chartmakers, and graphic artists for more ITG? It sure as hell isn't the demand for ITG; that's skyrocketed. It definately isn't money; ITG will make a huge profit over time even if they hired the entire Roxor staff. So what is?

Nothing. If Konami wants ITG to die, they'll let it. But right now, based on the fact that they supposedly still plan to sell ITG2 dedicabs, I very much doubt that they're intending to kill it off. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if all the hush-hush was just to get us excited about it...
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