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RBCF retunes
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Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Location: 2P side |
840.  Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| cfusionpm wrote: | | DDRNemesis wrote: | | The days when 4th mix were heavily available were the best. Also DDR has had some very fun hard charts. |
the s-maniac steps for dub-i-dub, my fire, and love were some of the best in the game. |
Agree.
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DDRNemesis
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Synaesthesia
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Location: Crushing all deceivers, smashing non-believers |
| 842. Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see how you can say an 8 is too easy but a 9 is too hard, unless you can barely get by a 7 or 8. Doubly confusing because based on your IIDX scores you at least know what timing is.
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triad.spacefight
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Reenee
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Joined: 21 Nov 2003
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| 844. Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:51 am Post subject: |
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SOMEWHAT? Oh no no no no no...
Superior is more like it. |
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zdemigoth
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| 845. Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| DDRNemesis wrote: | | I'm glad Konami has a different mindset for hard charts. The reason I hate ITG is because expert is too hard and hard is too easy and boring. |
I really don't know what is wrong with YOU, I think 64th note runs and hitting four arrows in the same manner as a frong jumping are fun! |
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Razma
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Joined: 20 Jun 2002
Location: Colorado Springs, CO |
| 846. Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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I guess Phrek said it best: | Quote: | That's a shame but I suppose this is a different generation of DDR players they are trying to capture.
Sure is losing me though. |
I started playing on a DDR US and went straight to 3rd mix and grew from there. What was hard back then (Afronova, Dynamite Rave, Grad Cyber remix) is cake now. Even most of the songs were easy for me back then, but it was still fun.
Now, normally I would go into a nice long rant about the player base as of late but rather than create flamebait, I'll not comment on that. Simply stated, a LOT of the newer (less than 3 year) players have simply been crying "DIFFICULTY!" rather than "FUN!!!" because doing whats OMG SUPER HARD is what they want.
Dramatic tempo changes, stops, idiotic jump patterns when put to badly produced music is not what I call fun. I didn't like Max300 as a song, but the series began to look up again when Max2 came out and threw in MaxX Unlimited (which has a MUCH higher production value) and the amazing Kakumei. Extreme almost did better, but SuperNova has some really BAD music and bad steps to go with it.
I love bemani crossovers, but I would love it more if they didn't butcher the song in the process. The first time I heard murmur twins and Rainbow Rainbow, I shuddered because of how abysmal the musical cuts were. Some of the cuts (like Tino's White Horse and AA) actually make sense, but I wish they took a look at how the Ultramix games did IIDX songs and just left them the full length. Also, it needs more Giudecca.
Another thing that really kinds messes me up is difficulty ratings. How is it that a song can be an 8 on Expert, and then be an 8 on Challenge and have a dramatically harder chart without having a different rating? How in the world can you have Sakura, Xepher, MaxX Unlimited, and FELM in the same difficulty category? There are things they need to figure out...
okay, rant over, move on to the next rant... come on, we're done... [/joke]
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Last edited by Razma on Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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Auspher
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Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Location: Medina, Ohio |
| 847. Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Razma wrote: |
okay, rant over, move on to the next rant... come on, we're done... [/joke] |
God..that ending of that song annoys me to no end..
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Phrekwenci
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| 848. Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think it's much of a general matter of fun (which is probably what Konami was thinking for SN) but moreso what is visually pleasing to look at and perform, something that isn't so easy to create unless you've done research.
It's very possible to make things as difficult as these new songs but it really seems there was very little thought actually put in the chart in regard to placement and positioning and more of a "just make it hard" emphasis.
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cfusionpm
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Location: San Diego, CA |
| 849. Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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people complained and wanted hard. they got hard, and now they're complaining its not pretty or fun. blah blah whine whine.
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AA Bob
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| 850. Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| cfusionpm wrote: | | people complained and wanted hard. |
This is true.
| cfusionpm wrote: | | they got hard, and now they're complaining its not pretty or fun. |
Yeah...because it isn't.
I wouldn't expect you to understand because you don't like playing hard charts in the first place, but take it from someone who does - most of these new SN 10s suck. That's why people are complaining. If some of the new 10s were solid (both musically and chart-wise) like Unlimited and PSM, very few people would be complaining (save for the few folks who would bitch about Konami making DDR more like that "other" dance game, and ignore the fact that they don't have to play the hard songs). But the only new 10 that looks like it had a significant amount of work put into it is Xepher (which isn't all that difficult).
The bottom line is that there is a reason people are still griping, and it's not because they hate Konami and are going to complain no matter what. You can't say "look, there are some new 10s, you got everything you wanted, shut up" because it just isn't true.
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| Emptyeye wrote: | | So um, is it bad that awhile ago I was watching Family Guy, and when Quagmire came on, I thought something to the effect of "Whoa, It's AA Bob!" (I don't remember if the exact thought was "It's AA Bob" or "It's AA Bob's avatar", but I don't think it matters in this case)? |
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triad.spacefight
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cfusionpm
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| 852. Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| AA Bob wrote: | I wouldn't expect you to understand because you don't like playing hard charts in the first place, but take it from someone who does - most of these new SN 10s suck. That's why people are complaining. If some of the new 10s were solid (both musically and chart-wise) like Unlimited and PSM, very few people would be complaining (save for the few folks who would bitch about Konami making DDR more like that "other" dance game, and ignore the fact that they don't have to play the hard songs). But the only new 10 that looks like it had a significant amount of work put into it is Xepher (which isn't all that difficult).
The bottom line is that there is a reason people are still griping, and it's not because they hate Konami and are going to complain no matter what. You can't say "look, there are some new 10s, you got everything you wanted, shut up" because it just isn't true. |
| cfusionpm wrote: | | blah blah whine whine. |
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AA Bob
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| 853. Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:39 am Post subject: |
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I am stunned by the profoundness and depth of your insight.
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| Emptyeye wrote: | | So um, is it bad that awhile ago I was watching Family Guy, and when Quagmire came on, I thought something to the effect of "Whoa, It's AA Bob!" (I don't remember if the exact thought was "It's AA Bob" or "It's AA Bob's avatar", but I don't think it matters in this case)? |
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Edible Bondage Tape
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| 854. Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:27 am Post subject: |
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ui belive that cfusion is mearly saying that you need to be careful what you ask for because you might just get it (haha just like democracy)
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shadow0290
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| 855. Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| AA Bob wrote: | | If some of the new 10s were solid (both musically and chart-wise) like Unlimited and PSM, very few people would be complaining (save for the few folks who would bitch about Konami making DDR more like that "other" dance game, and ignore the fact that they don't have to play the hard songs). But the only new 10 that looks like it had a significant amount of work put into it is Xepher (which isn't all that difficult). |
Exactly. Which is why if Konami made a new 10 like PSM and Unlimited, people would say that it's good, but not difficult enough. I guess my point is: You can't get much harder without the steps getting "dumber."
This is what cfusion, Bonus Track and I are talking about.
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AA Bob
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| 856. Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| shadow0290 wrote: | | AA Bob wrote: | | If some of the new 10s were solid (both musically and chart-wise) like Unlimited and PSM, very few people would be complaining (save for the few folks who would bitch about Konami making DDR more like that "other" dance game, and ignore the fact that they don't have to play the hard songs). But the only new 10 that looks like it had a significant amount of work put into it is Xepher (which isn't all that difficult). |
Exactly. Which is why if Konami made a new 10 like PSM and Unlimited, people would say that it's good, but not difficult enough. |
I was implying that PSM and Unlimited are sufficiently difficult, so no.
But now that you mention it...it would be nice to have some songs even harder than PSM and Unlimited. And yes, songs can get more difficult than those two without getting dumber. Look at ITG.
And to the person (whoever you are) who's about to give me the usual "ITG is garbage" because of that last sentence: save it. All you're going to do is show me that you have no idea what you're talking about.
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| Emptyeye wrote: | | So um, is it bad that awhile ago I was watching Family Guy, and when Quagmire came on, I thought something to the effect of "Whoa, It's AA Bob!" (I don't remember if the exact thought was "It's AA Bob" or "It's AA Bob's avatar", but I don't think it matters in this case)? |
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zdemigoth
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| 857. Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| AA Bob wrote: |
And yes, songs can get more difficult than those two without getting dumber. Look at ITG.
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I am looking....and I see nothing.
Seriously, the point is that there are hard charts that make sense and then there are charts that are hard and stupid. I play ITG and I like some of their 10's, like Vorsprung Durch Techno. It is difficult, but it at least goes with the melody. The song was not created so that a hard stepchart could be made. It didn't have to be hardcore techno gabba whatever just to get a crazy and fast melody SOLELY FOR HARD STEPS. It actually has some music value independent of electro-hopscotchin'.
Charts like Sweet World expert are stupid. There is some sort of pattern to those little gallops that kind of go to the little bleeps and boops...but when someone stepped back and said "THIS AIN'T HARD ENOUGH AND WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TENS!!!!!" they threw in some 16th note mess to go along with some distant rattling noise that kind of is like music. The pattern to the madness was lost.
The reason older DDR players get nostalgic and upset over these just-to-be-hard songs and charts is that, at least back in the day, the game could be difficult (without being insane) with good music and be enjoyable. 3rd mix is probably the best example because it had plenty of 8's and 9's that were challenging but not to some ludicrous level and people actually liked it. Heck, with its varied and wide song selection and mix of difficulties, the only thing that doesn't make 3rd one of the better mixes is that the interface was uglier than sin.
Konami: please go play Cartoon Heroes and Xenon and these other "fun" 9's and then work on the next mix. Please see Felm oni and punch yourself in the stomach as a reminder that it is bad. |
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KingofLight06
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Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Location: Syracuse, NY & Rochester, NY |
| 858. Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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Well, everyone has their own definition of fun.
If you don't like these "stupid" expert charts, the hard charts are there for the purpose of being easier but still going with the music.
Don't like the hard or expert chart? Make your own steps, bring it in, and enjoy it all you want. That's the glory of ITG2, if you don't like the steps, you have the power to play your own steps.
And if distant rattling is in the song, then it's part of the music, and steps can go to it. But it's all a matter of opinion as to whether someone likes that sort of thing or not.
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| One Bad Apple wrote: | | KingofLight06 wrote: | | Eh, it's not that bad. When you're playing Single, and you're really tuned in, you hardly even notice it. |
Everytime I read this, I see "Eh, it's not that bad. When you're single, and really turned on, you hardly even notice it" |
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TimeSpaceMage
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