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AA Bob
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Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Alllll right! |
600.  Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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Xepher is definitely good, although I'm looking forward to making a more difficult edit for it.
As for HDVO, having 16ths instead of triplets sounds like a pretty serious problem (although it depends on the context - it's not that bad in Tsugaru's gallops). I'll reserve judgment on this song until I've actually played it.
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| Emptyeye wrote: | | So um, is it bad that awhile ago I was watching Family Guy, and when Quagmire came on, I thought something to the effect of "Whoa, It's AA Bob!" (I don't remember if the exact thought was "It's AA Bob" or "It's AA Bob's avatar", but I don't think it matters in this case)? |
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Xopher
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Joined: 23 Jan 2002
Location: Benton, AR |
| 601. Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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I'm surprised no one has made any parallels of Felm to Disconnected.
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DX Manaic
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Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Location: Outer Limits |
| 602. Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Xopher wrote: | | I'm surprised no one has made any parallels of Felm to Disconnected. |
Someone hasn't been reading the past few pages...
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Cutriss
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
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| 603. Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| DX Manaic wrote: | | Xopher wrote: | | I'm surprised no one has made any parallels of Felm to Disconnected. |
Someone hasn't been reading the past few pages... |
Well, it is easy to get lost in the sea of DDR vs. ITG. And I was digging all this up as you posted the response, I'll save him some time. | djTORA fw/ Yossie wrote: | Telephones? "You Are Connected" at the end?
D: Disconnected in MY Fascination!? |
| TimeSpaceMage wrote: | Holy crap, it really does sound like Disconnected. That's really freaky, plus the middle part's just as good as ever. I opt we change the name of the song to ~Eternal Phone Mix~  |
| Liquid Zero wrote: | Um, okay wow. This song sounds quite better than FAXX. But I can't get a clear call on this until I get a better-quality sound, though. Arrgh, I must find out, because I have loved every single 2MB remix made so far.
Anyway, I was expecting Felm and FAXX to sound similar, but wasn't expecting THIS much similarity. However, I think the way Felm incorporates itself with the stepchart is MUCH more interesting than anything FAXX delivers. The first 2/3rds of Felm seemed really cool and flowed with the song pretty well, and I like the way it ends. In addition, most of the stupid hard stuff actually goes with the song. *gasp*
As for the whole Disconnected thing...LOLOLOL. Payback from their PARANOiA version and Energizer? =P
I'd laugh harder if telephone sounds are a theme of the alleged Fascination series, if a series is indeed what we're dealing with. |
| Jayden Hakrodan wrote: | | Now I'm very curious and anxious see the Challenge version of Fascination ~eternal love mix~, if there is one, which seems very likely considering every new ten has a challenge version. I found the telephone rings very annoying at first, but I think I could get used to it.. I couldn't help but wonder if they were remixing Disconnected when I first heard it. I really don't think this can be said to be harder than Fascination Maxx.. but then again, I've yet to try EITHER, so I'm withholding my opinion on that until I actually try them both(whenever Asheville gets a Supernova machine, that is). One thing's for sure, this definitely is showing that Konami's starting to really be fine with throwing in tens, which hopefully means we may upgrade to an 11 feet rating sometime soon. |
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Wolfman Jake
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Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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| 604. Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Xopher wrote: | | I'm surprised no one has made any parallels of Felm to Disconnected. |
Oh, they have. You're not looking hard enough. It's a rather shallow comparison, though. Basically, both use phone samples, but I don't think either song uses ANY of the same phone sounds as the other. Other than that, the songs sound very different, have different "themes" (i.e. connection to someone in FELM versus being disconnected in Disconnected), etc. I don't even agree with the people who think Disconnected sounds like a PARANOiA rip-off. Disconnected might by trying to be a PARANOiA like song/series, but it's got its own sound. For a better DDR song to ITG song similarity, look to MAX series vs. Energizer. You could probably fool someone naive to Energizer into thinking it's a new MAX song. Here's a better example, but solely within DDR: D2R versus 1998 (versus half of the songs Naoki writes under his name).
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Spy47
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Joined: 29 Jun 2003
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| 605. Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| AA Bob wrote: |
As for HDVO, having 16ths instead of triplets sounds like a pretty serious problem (although it depends on the context - it's not that bad in Tsugaru's gallops). I'll reserve judgment on this song until I've actually played it. |
I'm really worried about this. I REALLY HOPE that Konami fixed this. I love the song.
If you listen the song, it obviously goes in a 6/8 time signature. You are forced to make a stepchart with 12ths (triplets). But they did it with 8ths and 16ths! WTF, Konami!? |
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zdemigoth
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Joined: 05 Oct 2002
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| 606. Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | For the record, and I've said this many times, I don't care HOW you play, just don't be delusional about what you're doing. That IS annoying. |
You are playing hopscotch with lights and a backwards walker. Don't lie, we all do it and we LIKE IT!!! I only hope retirement is as fun. |
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koffan
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Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Sacramento |
| 607. Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:01 am Post subject: |
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Parts of Healing-D-Vision actually do go to 8ths (the beginning has a 4/4 beat and a more prominent triplets, so the steps should go to the triplets, and there's a few more 8th beats in the song). No, I'm not a fanboy in denial either.
Still, the steps were meant to be triplets. In the beginning part, 8ths would work fine, triplets would be perfect, but the 16ths that they have now don't work. It's more problematic in the middle, since there's no 8th beat there. I wouldn't throw a fit either way, but I'd prefer if it was change to triplets for the first half.
I hope that was clear, I'm not that good with musical terms.
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Cutriss
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
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| 608. Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| AA Bob wrote: | | As for HDVO, having 16ths instead of triplets sounds like a pretty serious problem (although it depends on the context - it's not that bad in Tsugaru's gallops). I'll reserve judgment on this song until I've actually played it. |
Wait, he said that?
Tsugaru uses 32nd notes, not 16th.
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Bemani Dog
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Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Orlando, FL |
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Edible Bondage Tape
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Joined: 26 Jan 2002
Location: Kerri |
| 610. Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | I don't even agree with the people who think Disconnected sounds like a PARANOiA rip-off. |
its not that they sound the same its that some parts of disconnected sound like they were sampled straight from paranoia
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Cutriss
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
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| 611. Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| Bemani Dog wrote: | | Cutriss wrote: | | AA Bob wrote: | | As for HDVO, having 16ths instead of triplets sounds like a pretty serious problem (although it depends on the context - it's not that bad in Tsugaru's gallops). I'll reserve judgment on this song until I've actually played it. |
Wait, he said that?
Tsugaru uses 32nd notes, not 16th. |
Tsugaru uses both 16th and 32nd notes. |
Oh fine, get all technical on me for choosing words poorly. 
Yes, both 16th *and* 32nd notes. I should've said "They're not all 16th notes - parts of the gallops use 32nd notes".
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AA Bob
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Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Alllll right! |
| 612. Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| Cutriss wrote: | | Bemani Dog wrote: | | Cutriss wrote: | | AA Bob wrote: | | As for HDVO, having 16ths instead of triplets sounds like a pretty serious problem (although it depends on the context - it's not that bad in Tsugaru's gallops). I'll reserve judgment on this song until I've actually played it. |
Wait, he said that?
Tsugaru uses 32nd notes, not 16th. |
Tsugaru uses both 16th and 32nd notes. |
Oh fine, get all technical on me for choosing words poorly.
Yes, both 16th *and* 32nd notes. I should've said "They're not all 16th notes - parts of the gallops use 32nd notes". |
I knew that. Most of the gallops use 16ths.
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| Emptyeye wrote: | | So um, is it bad that awhile ago I was watching Family Guy, and when Quagmire came on, I thought something to the effect of "Whoa, It's AA Bob!" (I don't remember if the exact thought was "It's AA Bob" or "It's AA Bob's avatar", but I don't think it matters in this case)? |
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Synaesthesia
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Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Location: Crushing all deceivers, smashing non-believers |
| 613. Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| Wolfman Jake wrote: | Wow, you cut out the rest of what I said because it made your pithy little retort seem all the more inane? Was that supposed to impress someone?
To the point, Synethesia, your argument is hopelessly flawed. Those "insignificant mental challenges" that you try to marginalize are overcome most often by using mods that MAKE THE GAME EASIER. It is people like you who select what THEY think is the only thing that matters and then dismiss the rest. You cannot argue that arrow reading doesn't matter by saying that you can "negate" its challenge by REMOVING it from the gameplay. Want to bring memorization into it? Fine. Memorizing stops and BPM changes can help you get through a song, just as memorizing the music helps you keep the rhythm and improve your accuracy. Sorry, you can't win there either. The fact that you're even trying to make these claims shows that you don't even read what's going on. You just sniff out thoughtful discussions, especially if your precious ITG is on the line, and then proceed to throw your ignorant weight around to somehow convince yourself that you are smarter than everyone else. If you even put just a LITTLE bit of honest thought into the things you say and do here, you might deserve a small part of that huge chip on your shoulder. |
God you're dense. Bob was already discussing the whole length of the post with you. The ONLY issue I was specifically calling you out on was your "oh DDR's charts are so much more complex than ITG's," a statement which you have failed to back up, or offer counterproof to the songs I listed.
As far as the reading goes, EVERY reading possibility can be overcome with memorization. I don't care if it's bag on .5x or Paranoia on 5x, if you have difficulty reading SOMETHING, you can overcome this by memorizing it. (It's worth noting that reading 1x isn't THAT hard, and reading speed is not universal--I benefit from reading in the 500-600 range, others would be hindered by this). Memorizing something does not improve your stamina, nor does it improve your foot command. It is a set of skills* outside of the game; those skills required by the game are foot timing command, and possibly the stamina to maintain the command (though this one is questionable, as it's obvious that the stamina aspect can be developed in many different ways outside of the game). For instance, I can read Bloodrush at a variety of speeds until the cows come home, but I most certainly cannot play it well as a result of reading it. If memorization improved foot timing command, I'm quite sure I would've gone and memorized myself a AAA on the entire game.
*I hesitate to call memorization a skill AT ALL in any aspect of life, unless it involves massively large quantities of data. Memory is something exceedingly elementary; I have not yet anyone of reasonable overall intelligence who did not have the capacity to remember given information.
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Arctic Wolves
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Canada |
| 614. Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| Exclusive Bonus Track wrote: | | its not that they sound the same its that some parts of disconnected sound like they were sampled straight from paranoia |
I'm quite sure Disconnected even sampled PARANOiA directly, but these samples were removed for the actual release.
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Spy47
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Joined: 29 Jun 2003
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| 615. Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| koffan wrote: | Parts of Healing-D-Vision actually do go to 8ths (the beginning has a 4/4 beat and a more prominent triplets, so the steps should go to the triplets, and there's a few more 8th beats in the song). No, I'm not a fanboy in denial either.
Still, the steps were meant to be triplets. In the beginning part, 8ths would work fine, triplets would be perfect, but the 16ths that they have now don't work. It's more problematic in the middle, since there's no 8th beat there. I wouldn't throw a fit either way, but I'd prefer if it was change to triplets for the first half.
I hope that was clear, I'm not that good with musical terms. |
I'm pretty sure the entire song goes in 6/8.  Like Bag, Burning Heat, or Heaven is a '57 metallic gray. |
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Liquid Zero
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Joined: 11 Apr 2003
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| 616. Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Arctic Wolves wrote: | | Exclusive Bonus Track wrote: | | its not that they sound the same its that some parts of disconnected sound like they were sampled straight from paranoia |
I'm quite sure Disconnected even sampled PARANOiA directly, but these samples were removed for the actual release. |
The actual arcade release? I dunno, even at the arcade, there are still sounds that sound like they are, or amazingly are, directly from the PARANOiA series. This is probably why it's been popularly compared to PARANOiAs. Coupled with the fact that DC also has its huge number of direct remixing.
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Orion.78 ~Civilization Mix~ - La Senorita Virtual
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Wolfman Jake
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Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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| 617. Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Synaesthesia wrote: | | God you're dense. Bob was already discussing the whole length of the post with you. The ONLY issue I was specifically calling you out on was your "oh DDR's charts are so much more complex than ITG's," a statement which you have failed to back up, or offer counterproof to the songs I listed. |
Back up an argument that you facsimilated by selecting portions of what I originally said and neglecting important qualifying information that put everything in a proper context? I was supposed to take that seriously? Who's dense again? Just to humor you, though, all you mentioned were a FRACTION of the charts in ITG1. I never said they were ALL lacking in pattern complexity, but the majority are. I also never unilaterally panned Expert, but pointed out that some charts weren't any more creative than putting in 16th notes to make them "fast." MOST of Hard is rubbish in ITG1, and even the most devout of ITG fans will attest to such. They told Roxor how crappy the Hard steps were, citing the problem of lots of charts not requiring you to turn much at all, etc. Roxor tried harder for ITG2, and probably succeeded in that regard. When looking at things on the whole, DDR is much more consistent with making you do twists and turns, crossovers, spins, and even acceptable amounts of double stepping when compared to ITG1. Even though ITG2 presented much better designed patterns for Hard charts, ITG1 still brings the average down. I am NOT alone in recognizing that DDR has much more tech kind of stuff going on while ITG has more speed and stamina stuff to offer. This is NOTHING new, and a lot of people, who are much more rational than you can ever seem to be, agree to these points. But you have a huge problem when anyone dares to critique your precious ITG to the point that you misinterpret (either willingly or unwillingly) what people have to say in order to try to strike them down for their "insolence" and pat yourself on the back with your woefully unearned smug sense of superiority.
| Synaesthesia wrote: | | Extended and misguided rant. |
Foot speed and stamina (and timing) won't help you learn the song either. As I've said, both are integral components to the game. To say that a chart has no real "challenge" just because you can learn how the "reading tricks" work is as fallacious as to say that MAX 300 has no challenge because you can just build up your speed and stamina. The relativistic nature of "challenge" should be painfully obvious, but I don't think you REALLY appreciate such. The ability to memorize may not seem to impressive to you, but it's not as if memorizing bag will mean you could clear CHAOS on your first ever read. Each song that requires learning special scroll nuiances represents a unique new set of information to assimilate and later recall. It's no different than faster and faster songs requiring you to attain greater physical ability to accomplish them, but once you do, is not the "challenge" of the song diminished greatly for you? It's not at all different from learning BPM shifts or stops or whathave you, since once it's done, it's done. Yes, some days you could be off, or not at your physical peek, and your performance suffers. You can also not be on your mental peak, space out, and screw up a "scroll trick," despite the fact that you memorized it. CHAOS is an example that took this to a new extreme. Let yourself lapse during the song, and you're going to get screwed (especially on OMES or an Oni course). This physical vs. mental standpoint of yours is ridiculous, as it is plain these different skills are NOT all that different in their application to the game. If all you choose to care about is foot speed and stamina, then whatever, that's your choice to make, but it doesn't mean those are the only sources of challenge in DDR, or that they SHOULD be the only sources of challenge in DDR.
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AA Bob
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Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Alllll right! |
| 618. Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | To say that a chart has no real "challenge" just because you can learn how the "reading tricks" work is as fallacious as to say that MAX 300 has no challenge once you have the foot speed, stamina, and accuracy to AAA PSMO. |
The difference is that memorizing where the BPM changes and stops are in a chart takes far, far less time, skill, and effort than increasing footspeed and becoming more accurate.
For example: when I first got Extreme 2, I had no experience with Paranoia Survivor at all. The first few times I played it, the slowdowns really screwed me over. After about 5 tries, though, I knew where the slowdowns were, and reading was no longer a problem. But it was months before I was able to full combo it.
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| Emptyeye wrote: | | So um, is it bad that awhile ago I was watching Family Guy, and when Quagmire came on, I thought something to the effect of "Whoa, It's AA Bob!" (I don't remember if the exact thought was "It's AA Bob" or "It's AA Bob's avatar", but I don't think it matters in this case)? |
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Sweet Potato
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Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Sexy |
| 619. Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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MY GOD you guys type way too much. Settle down a little and just enjoy the game.
All I want to know is if every song in the game has the right syncing now. |
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