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AA Bob
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Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Alllll right! |
540.  Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | MAX 300
MAXX UNLIMITED
The legend of MAX
MAX 300 (Super-Max-Me Mix)
PARANOiA survivor
PARANOiA survivor MAX Expert
PARANOiA survivor MAX Challenge |
These are okay...sort of. Notice how each and every one of them just HAS to have some type of speed change somewhere - the sort of speed change that affects 1x sightread difficulty.
Steps aren't all that difficult, except for the occasional short 8th note stream. Half of its difficulty comes from it being too OMGFAST for beginners to read, and from random speed changes.
Steps are pretty easy; rated 10s for 1x reading difficulty.
| Quote: | | Healing-D-Vision Challenge |
I haven't seen more than a blurry vid of part of this song, but from what I hear, the steps are horrible (in terms of both construction and syncing).
| Quote: | G2
Xepher Challenge |
And these are the good ones. No random BPM fluctuation, difficulty comes from steps themselves. And it's good to see that Konami is starting to figure out that not all 10s need BPMs in the 300 range.
| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | As soon as you get used to it, the "gimmick" labels fade |
As soon as you get used to it, it becomes easy. Speed changes and stops are just a way to take easier steps and make a "hard" chart out of them.
Edit: And on top of that, how many of the new SN boss charts have been non-gimmicky? Zero? That's the main reason why I'm disappointed with Fascination ELM.
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| Emptyeye wrote: | | So um, is it bad that awhile ago I was watching Family Guy, and when Quagmire came on, I thought something to the effect of "Whoa, It's AA Bob!" (I don't remember if the exact thought was "It's AA Bob" or "It's AA Bob's avatar", but I don't think it matters in this case)? |
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Maxx!
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Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Southeast KY |
| 541. Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:54 am Post subject: |
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I wouldn't call Fascination MaxX gimmicky. Yeah, the speed changes are hard, but even if I played it on C400, I couldn't pass it. Take out the stops and tempo changes, and it's still a really hard chart.
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Jayden Hakrodan
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Joined: 17 May 2006
Location: Asheville, NC |
| 542. Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Now I'm very curious and anxious see the Challenge version of Fascination ~eternal love mix~, if there is one, which seems very likely considering every new ten has a challenge version. I found the telephone rings very annoying at first, but I think I could get used to it.. I couldn't help but wonder if they were remixing Disconnected when I first heard it. I really don't think this can be said to be harder than Fascination Maxx.. but then again, I've yet to try EITHER, so I'm withholding my opinion on that until I actually try them both(whenever Asheville gets a Supernova machine, that is). One thing's for sure, this definitely is showing that Konami's starting to really be fine with throwing in tens, which hopefully means we may upgrade to an 11 feet rating sometime soon. |
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AlexTrebek
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Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Location: Portland, OR |
| 543. Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Maxx! wrote: | | I wouldn't call Fascination MaxX gimmicky. Yeah, the speed changes are hard, but even if I played it on C400, I couldn't pass it. Take out the stops and tempo changes, and it's still a really hard chart. |
VerTex^2 Expert on C450 would still be hell. And don't even try to not call that gimmicky.
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Xayro
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Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Location: Kokomo, IN |
| 544. Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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That chiming at the end is the sound a car makes when you leave the door ajar.
I just noticed that. It sounds that way in the video at least.
Fascination series until the end of DDR plz.
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Spy47
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Joined: 29 Jun 2003
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| 545. Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| The thing about gimmicks is personal opinion. I like gimmicks because I prefer mental difficulty more than physical difficulty (see Hard-Fast-Tiring Stepcharts). Maybe you would like PIU better. |
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zdemigoth
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Joined: 05 Oct 2002
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| 546. Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Jayden Hakrodan wrote: | | Now I'm very curious and anxious see the Challenge version of Fascination ~eternal love mix~, if there is one, which seems very likely considering every new ten has a challenge version. I found the telephone rings very annoying at first, but I think I could get used to it.. I couldn't help but wonder if they were remixing Disconnected when I first heard it. I really don't think this can be said to be harder than Fascination Maxx.. but then again, I've yet to try EITHER, so I'm withholding my opinion on that until I actually try them both(whenever Asheville gets a Supernova machine, that is). One thing's for sure, this definitely is showing that Konami's starting to really be fine with throwing in tens, which hopefully means we may upgrade to an 11 feet rating sometime soon. |
The problem is that they seem to like either really hard or really easy. It would be nice if they fleshed out the difficulty range with some more 9's on songs OR used the challenge charts to add 9's while retaining original steps. Either way, it's a start. |
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justoneuncle
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Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Location: Syracuse, NY |
| 547. Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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I, personally, have a really hard time calling Fascination Maxx and Fascination eternal love "gimmicky." Chaos is gimmicky but it suits the title, but the Fascinations just change speed a lot. It's not like the gimmicky speed up by 2bpm every second or so like the middle of Insertion or Vertex/V^2. Maxx Unlimited changes speed quite a bit and is usually not considered gimmicky. Moreso, I think it is probably the best singles chart in any four-arrow dancing game. The middle of Fascination eternal love is tricky with the stops but is no different than the middle of So Fabulous So Fierce.
The fact is, I love the Max series from 300 to LOM. However, 8th note runs at ~300bpm is old and easy for most top tier players. More songs like them would, in my opinion, make the game more stale. Each boss song has progressed from the boss songs before it. So, I appreciate that about the Fascinations and HDVO. I like that it is hard without being Pandemonium or Bloodrush difficult. Not knocking those charts, but I want difficult charts that are different ITG's super-hard charts.
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Spy47
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| 548. Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Exactly. That's what makes DDR unique. |
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tora
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Joined: 16 Nov 2002
Location: Memphis, TN |
| 549. Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Wolfman Jake wrote: | 10's without gimmicks:
bag
OUTER LIMITS |
Although your definition of a gimmick is sound, I would argue that these two songs are gimmicky as well.
bag, for the fact that the song's step data is made with the BPM halved from the actual BPM. Making it harder to PA for two reasons: it's hell for MOST players to play at 1x speed. and the second being that since DDR's step data system is coded so weirdly, they can't have perfectly in sync steps, or remotely close to it has it could of been had it been at it's normal BPM.
Also, OUTER LIMITS is gimmicky in the sense that it totally strayed off it's original BPM established in IIDX, by using half the normal BPM and twice the normal BPM. Though this works great for it, based on it's sound (though I'm usually against such) it's still a gimmick.
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Wolfman Jake
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Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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| 550. Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| djTORA fw/ Yossie wrote: | bag, for the fact that the song's step data is made with the BPM halved from the actual BPM. Making it harder to PA for two reasons: it's hell for MOST players to play at 1x speed. and the second being that since DDR's step data system is coded so weirdly, they can't have perfectly in sync steps, or remotely close to it has it could of been had it been at it's normal BPM.
Also, OUTER LIMITS is gimmicky in the sense that it totally strayed off it's original BPM established in IIDX, by using half the normal BPM and twice the normal BPM. Though this works great for it, based on it's sound (though I'm usually against such) it's still a gimmick. |
But if we poopoo bag for being half its "real" BPM, we open the door for people who say MAX 300 is one huge gimmick for being twice its "real" BPM. route 80's is another example where DDR played around with IIDX's original BPM. In IIDX, the BPM never changes for the song, but in DDR, it doubles for the "intense" parts. People love it, but Outer Limits plays the same trick, and people initially decried this move.
The people who cry "gimmick" are really just whining. They have decided that there is ONE aspect to playing the game. Foot speed. They whine about cross-overs, double stepping, x1 play, tempo changes and stops, or anything else that prevents them from mindlessly hugging the bar and flailing their legs around to "win." Some people need to get over the fact that the GAME requires more than a jock mentality. It's not Konami's fault that a subset of players somehow got a huge chip on their shoulders and came under the delusion that they can dictate the philosophy of challenge for the game.
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Liquid Zero
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Joined: 11 Apr 2003
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| 551. Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly with Wolfman, Condesending Unc, and Spy47. Once again, I don't think I could have put it any better than Jake has.
On another note, however, one thing I noticed in Felm is that the player doesn't seem to step to arrows at the speed of FAXX in its 400bpm 1\8th note section right before the piano slowdown very often, despite Fascination's shifts in 100-200-400. The only time it really gets that quick is in two arrow patterns containing 16ths during some slow parts and they also happen during much of the last 400 bpm section. However, this IS a harder sight-read, but most of it is still like 200bpm 1/8th note stepping.
So to me, it seems like Fascination is the DDR song I've seen that does the most bpm changes with so little change in how fast you actually step to the arrows. Right up there with CHAOS, I suppose.
I could be mistaken, but it seems that way. |
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zdemigoth
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Joined: 05 Oct 2002
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| 552. Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:56 am Post subject: |
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Thank you. Someone else here knows where the x goes in the x1.
Personally, I think the boss songs in DDR are hard enough. They still can manage to be somewhat fun without draining you physically, even if they do rely on a gimmick. Don't like the gimmick, don't play the song. |
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AA Bob
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Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Alllll right! |
| 553. Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | But if we poopoo bag for being half its "real" BPM, we open the door for people who say MAX 300 is one huge gimmick for being twice its "real" BPM. |
No, since bag is a 10 because it's hard to read on 1x, and Max 300 is a 10 because of the difficulty of its steps.
| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | They have decided that there is ONE aspect to playing the game. Foot speed. They whine about cross-overs, double stepping |
I've never heard anyone whine about crossovers and (non-excessive) double stepping. That would be pretty dumb.
| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | x1 play |
I play on x1 all the time, so no.
| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | or anything else that prevents them from mindlessly hugging the bar and flailing their legs around to "win." |
The bar has nothing to do with this. Nothing. For the record, though, I've never used it.
| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | Some people need to get over the fact that the GAME requires more than a jock mentality. |
You say this all the time. What does it mean?
| zdemigoth wrote: |
Thank you. Someone else here knows where the x goes in the x1. |
Yeah, so it says x1 on the mods menu. Big deal.  I use x1 and 1x interchangeably, and so do a lot of other people.
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| Emptyeye wrote: | | So um, is it bad that awhile ago I was watching Family Guy, and when Quagmire came on, I thought something to the effect of "Whoa, It's AA Bob!" (I don't remember if the exact thought was "It's AA Bob" or "It's AA Bob's avatar", but I don't think it matters in this case)? |
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Catastrophe
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Joined: 04 Mar 2002
Location: Worcester, MA |
| 554. Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:03 am Post subject: SN Patch |
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Yay! I got to play! TGA didn't have Fascination ~eternal love mix~ available on the players best nonstop yet so I had to play it as an extra stage. I've already forgotten if you could choose your extra stage pre-patch, but now you can! The cursor starts on FaxX and you have to select Felm. (Or in my case, screw up and and hit the green button instead of the yellow one. Doh!) Felm seems not to have any steps besides heavy. I died during the first set of double and triple taps. Overall I think the song is just a hair easier than FaxX. In the video akeno is using x1.5 which I think makes the song harder to clear. The home version comes out in a week and a half. If I whore it out in training mode with assist 4 I think I'll be able to clear it.
The real new song was Flow (true style). Konami said that you'll be able to identify patched Supernovas by the presence of a new song on the songwheel. Felm requires you to get the ES.  I don't know if this was known or not, but Flow (true style) looks to me like it has the same heavy steps as the original, maybe on mirror. The 'difference' is that it jumps to a 280 BPM scroll rate in two places. Maybe I'm wrong and it actually has new steps on heavy. I dunno. But I am positive that Flow (true style) and Flow are the exact same song. By the way, they fixed the BPM of the original! (I forgot to check Innocence of Silence.) I never got around to trying the challenge steps.
I wasn't looking at the bottom of the screen or anything, but I didn't see anything new like "Insert your memory card here!" either. So, a second patch or they have the feature silently disabled at the moment.
I saved the best for last.  The timing is perfect! Now, I said before that I wasn't having any trouble with it. I play visually. But I don't think that they widened the windows either, because I wasn't getting AAAs. (I shouldn't be in the arcade.) Widening the window for the North American release would interfere with the global IR anyway. At home I AAA everything that isn't at least an 8 or 9. In the arcade however I usually get 10-40 "non-perfects" on everything in the 2-9 range. That is good, and I'm doing it consistently now. Since I play visually I'll edit my post to add a picture description in a few minutes.
Btw, Japan is owning the entire world on the IR. For people with the stars and stripes I saw yyr, cfusion, and Godai in the top 100 a few times on different courses but none of them were in the top 10. For countries other than the US the only other flag I saw in the top 100 was "other". Europe is apparently not even trying. |
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Wolfman Jake
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Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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| 555. Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:38 am Post subject: |
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I wasn't making a personal attack on you, AA Bob, so most of your "but I don't do that" exclamations aren't warranted or useful (n's of 1 typically aren't very informative), but I'm still going to respond point by point for the purpose of clarification.
| AA Bob wrote: | | Wolfman Jake wrote: | | But if we poopoo bag for being half its "real" BPM, we open the door for people who say MAX 300 is one huge gimmick for being twice its "real" BPM. |
No, since bag is a 10 because it's hard to read on 1x, and Max 300 is a 10 because of the difficulty of its steps. |
And it was hard because of its scroll rate, especially on ES, but now everyone is used to fast scrolling. Remember, there was a time when people were convinced MAX 300 was just impossible, and it was the combination of the speed with which your feet must move and the speed of arrow presentation that threw players for a loop. Later, with the advent of EXTREME, few cared to get used to bag's scrolling trick because they could (and did!) speed mod the difficulty away.
| AA Bob wrote: | | Wolfman Jake wrote: | | They have decided that there is ONE aspect to playing the game. Foot speed. They whine about cross-overs, double stepping |
I've never heard anyone whine about crossovers and (non-excessive) double stepping. That would be pretty dumb. |
Indeed, it IS dumb, which is why I made a point to bring it up, but I guess you haven't been paying enough attention to the stupid whining that goes on in Bemani discussion boards (but I can hardly blame you for that either).
| AA Bob wrote: | | Wolfman Jake wrote: | | x1 play |
I play on x1 all the time, so no.
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It's nice to see someone else still feels there's something to playing the game on its default settings. You and I, however, are in the minority, and there are TONS of people who are so dependent on speed mods that they decry the fact that they can't play Oni courses because it forces x1.
| AA Bob wrote: | | Wolfman Jake wrote: | | or anything else that prevents them from mindlessly hugging the bar and flailing their legs around to "win." |
The bar has nothing to do with this. Nothing. For the record, though, I've never used it. |
The bar is related. See my points on cross-overs, etc. "Bar raping" involves leaning back against the bar and using your legs basically to jab at the arrows, reducing the energy expended to a minimum at the expense of looking totally goofy (though no one seems to recognize this caveat). You can also use the bar judiciously to maintain your balance when you shift your weight. It always impresses me to watch players who only use the bar when they have to turn. They only grab it for a moment and then release. Bar-raping and speed modding prevents a lot of players from learning how to read patterns and handle turns and cross-overs by repositioning their bodies so that the are not facing the screen the whole time. Remember when people were convinced that FAXX made you double step, until someone pointed out that it's just crossovers?
| AA Bob wrote: | | Wolfman Jake wrote: | | Some people need to get over the fact that the GAME requires more than a jock mentality. |
You say this all the time. What does it mean? |
It means, as I stated above, that a subset of players have decided the only "challenge" to the game is foot speed. Hence, the only aspect of the game to them is the physical portion (jock mentality), which is in itself endlessly funny, given that a majority of them bar rape to reduce the amount of energy needed to perform these feats. All they care about for challenge is how much FASTER they can be asked to move their feet about (and still manage to PA). They pretty much only want patterns that do very simple things, like not make you twist or turn much at all, because that ruins their PA, by forcing you to do things like NOT rape the bar. They also hate ALL kinds of double stepping because it's harder to PA (really, they just can't be bothered to learn to double step well). Many of these are the people who basically want DDR to turn into ITG, with nearly ever song sporting a 10-12 chart, which necessitates ridiculous long 16th note (or worse) streams, since most songs aren't nearly fast enough for that MAX 300ish range which is what they really crave. Heck, many of those types of people are upset that ITG doesn't offer that for EVERY song, just a lot of them. The point is that there is, and pretty much always has been, more to the game than "how fast can your feet move?" There is a mental aspect of the game too: reading the arrows. The entire game is a measure of eye-foot coordination. Otherwise, the game would allow you to select a song and then rate you on how well you could alternate your feet to a beat. Can you recall how you had to learn to tackle those "diagonal jumps?" It takes a while when you start playing DDR to learn to respond properly to the on screen information. Things like BPM changes (scroll rate changes), stops, and arrow density play up this concept. It's integral to the game, and utilizing it as a tool to increase a song's difficulty is as natural as fooling around with step patterns or writing a song to be "fast."
| AA Bob wrote: | | zdemigoth wrote: |
Thank you. Someone else here knows where the x goes in the x1. |
Yeah, so it says x1 on the mods menu. Big deal. I use x1 and 1x interchangeably, and so do a lot of other people. |
It's not a big deal, no, but I appreciate the recognition It's x1 for DDR and 1x for Stepmania. Incidentally, it's also x2 (etc.) for PUMP's "velocity" mods. The position of the x is pretty arbitrary, but there are better "Stepmania conventions" to lament  The term "12th note" is an invention of Stepmania, because in musical parlance, there simply is no such thing. Notes are quantized into powers of 2. What many players call "12th" are more properly called "8th note triplets." This is, of course, an impossible battle to wage at this point, and even I will say "12th notes" typically, because otherwise, many players would have no idea what I'm talking about.
Again, AA Bob, don't take everything personally.
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XDevilZukinX
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Joined: 18 Aug 2005
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| 556. Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:57 am Post subject: |
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I don't know if this has been posted yet or not but here's a better quality vid i found on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oTatTbjYto
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Cutriss
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
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| 557. Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | AA Bob wrote: | | Wolfman Jake wrote: | | They have decided that there is ONE aspect to playing the game. Foot speed. They whine about cross-overs, double stepping |
I've never heard anyone whine about crossovers and (non-excessive) double stepping. That would be pretty dumb. |
Indeed, it IS dumb, which is why I made a point to bring it up, but I guess you haven't been paying enough attention to the stupid whining that goes on in Bemani discussion boards (but I can hardly blame you for that either). |
Take a look at the Ultramix 2 thread back when Quad mode was unveiled. I inadvertently provoked MJEmirzian (known for his indie stepchart work and currently an ITG step author) into a flamewar because he started laying into Konami over what he determined to be "incorrect and flawed" stepchart patterns, and talked about how awful the movie was (showing Ride on the Light) because in his opinion it couldn't be done without double-stepping (even though we demonstrated it could be done if you turned your back in parts).
There's a lot more that can be said about this topic, but I'll leave it here at a relatively neutral place.
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cfusionpm
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Location: San Diego, CA |
| 558. Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Catastrophe wrote: | | Btw, Japan is owning the entire world on the IR. For people with the stars and stripes I saw yyr, cfusion, and Godai in the top 100 a few times on different courses but none of them were in the top 10. For countries other than the US the only other flag I saw in the top 100 was "other". Europe is apparently not even trying. |
i put up a mediocre taka double score (my first and only pass). look for MIKE-FS- (mike from santee) in the top spots soon.
but as i understand, the japanese version doesnt have as bad of syncing issues due to different programming. so we, as americans playing on a US machine, are at an extreme disadvantage without the patch (which our arcade has not recieved yet)
| Wolfman Jake wrote: | The bar is related. See my points on cross-overs, etc. "Bar raping" involves leaning back against the bar and using your legs basically to jab at the arrows, reducing the energy expended to a minimum at the expense of looking totally goofy (though no one seems to recognize this caveat). You can also use the bar judiciously to maintain your balance when you shift your weight. It always impresses me to watch players who only use the bar when they have to turn. They only grab it for a moment and then release. Bar-raping and speed modding prevents a lot of players from learning how to read patterns and handle turns and cross-overs by repositioning their bodies so that the are not facing the screen the whole time. Remember when people were convinced that FAXX made you double step, until someone pointed out that it's just crossovers?
...
It means, as I stated above, that a subset of players have decided the only "challenge" to the game is foot speed. Hence, the only aspect of the game to them is the physical portion (jock mentality), which is in itself endlessly funny, given that a majority of them bar rape to reduce the amount of energy needed to perform these feats. All they care about for challenge is how much FASTER they can be asked to move their feet about (and still manage to PA). They pretty much only want patterns that do very simple things, like not make you twist or turn much at all, because that ruins their PA, by forcing you to do things like NOT rape the bar. They also hate ALL kinds of double stepping because it's harder to PA (really, they just can't be bothered to learn to double step well). Many of these are the people who basically want DDR to turn into ITG, with nearly ever song sporting a 10-12 chart, which necessitates ridiculous long 16th note (or worse) streams, since most songs aren't nearly fast enough for that MAX 300ish range which is what they really crave. Heck, many of those types of people are upset that ITG doesn't offer that for EVERY song, just a lot of them. The point is that there is, and pretty much always has been, more to the game than "how fast can your feet move?" There is a mental aspect of the game too: reading the arrows. The entire game is a measure of eye-foot coordination. Otherwise, the game would allow you to select a song and then rate you on how well you could alternate your feet to a beat. Can you recall how you had to learn to tackle those "diagonal jumps?" It takes a while when you start playing DDR to learn to respond properly to the on screen information. Things like BPM changes (scroll rate changes), stops, and arrow density play up this concept. It's integral to the game, and utilizing it as a tool to increase a song's difficulty is as natural as fooling around with step patterns or writing a song to be "fast." |
i love you. <3
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AA Bob
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Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Alllll right! |
| 559. Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | I wasn't making a personal attack on you, AA Bob, so most of your "but I don't do that" exclamations aren't warranted or useful |
Okay, sorry. I assumed you were talking mainly to me, since you started with "The people who cry 'gimmick' are really just whining..." when just a few posts up, I had been crying "gimmick". 
| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | And it was hard because of its scroll rate, especially on ES, but now everyone is used to fast scrolling. Remember, there was a time when people were convinced MAX 300 was just impossible, and it was the combination of the speed with which your feet must move and the speed of arrow presentation that threw players for a loop. Later, with the advent of EXTREME, few cared to get used to bag's scrolling trick because they could (and did!) speed mod the difficulty away. |
Imagine that the "ideal" scroll speed is 150-200 (I know it's a lot higher for many, but let's just pretend ). When bag is given the ideal scroll speed, people will find it no harder to pass than most 8s. When Max 300 is given the ideal scroll speed, it's still going to be harder to pass than any 9. That's what makes bag's gimmick so much worse than Max 300's.
| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | The bar is related. See my points on cross-overs, etc. "Bar raping" involves leaning back against the bar and using your legs basically to jab at the arrows, reducing the energy expended to a minimum at the expense of looking totally goofy (though no one seems to recognize this caveat). You can also use the bar judiciously to maintain your balance when you shift your weight. It always impresses me to watch players who only use the bar when they have to turn. They only grab it for a moment and then release. Bar-raping and speed modding prevents a lot of players from learning how to read patterns and handle turns and cross-overs by repositioning their bodies so that the are not facing the screen the whole time. |
Have you noticed that all of the world's best players use the bar on any reasonably difficult song? Not having to worry as much about balance makes nearly everything about the game easier. Some of the best players are pretty good no-bar, but on difficult songs, their bar score will always be higher. Say what you want about the bar, but the fact is that it's an excellent tool for scoring higher on difficult songs.
| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | It means, as I stated above, that a subset of players have decided the only "challenge" to the game is foot speed. Hence, the only aspect of the game to them is the physical portion (jock mentality), which is in itself endlessly funny, given that a majority of them bar rape to reduce the amount of energy needed to perform these feats. All they care about for challenge is how much FASTER they can be asked to move their feet about (and still manage to PA). They pretty much only want patterns that do very simple things, like not make you twist or turn much at all, because that ruins their PA, by forcing you to do things like NOT rape the bar. They also hate ALL kinds of double stepping because it's harder to PA (really, they just can't be bothered to learn to double step well). |
Where are these players? I've never seen anyone with that mentality on these forums. In any case, people who think like that are probably pretty bad at the game, since they're bad at double stepping and crossovers.
| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | Many of these are the people who basically want DDR to turn into ITG |
In general, ITG charts don't have the characteristics you mentioned above. A few examples...
Bend Your Mind, Driving Force Classical: Eighth note streams which, although they can be double-stepped, are a lot more fun with crossovers.
Hardcore of the North: Very few candle steps, but still has fairly complicated patterns.
Pandemonium, Delirium: Patterns are laden with candle steps, and are difficult even with the lack of crossovers.
The Beginning, Mythology: TONS of crossovers, steps are pretty difficult/draining.
I could go on, but I think you see the point: ITG is not about moving your feet over and over again to an LDUR pattern as fast as you can. Its charts, just like many of DDR's, are very complex.
| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | with nearly ever song sporting a 10-12 chart, which necessitates ridiculous long 16th note (or worse) streams |
12s: Yeah, there are 16th streams, but so what? A lot of people find them fun. They aren't a necessity, either; Tell and Euphoria have very few of these streams.
11s: Some 16th streams, but not nearly as many as in 12s.
10s: Extended 16th streams are pretty rare.
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| Emptyeye wrote: | | So um, is it bad that awhile ago I was watching Family Guy, and when Quagmire came on, I thought something to the effect of "Whoa, It's AA Bob!" (I don't remember if the exact thought was "It's AA Bob" or "It's AA Bob's avatar", but I don't think it matters in this case)? |
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