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dj-Luminus
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA |
280.  Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| WazNNathaN wrote: | | You can also not say all this without taking in the fact that many games, whether its a Video game, Arcade game, Online game, have bugs and problems that are addressed as soon as they appear. I know that all new arcade games dont all just show up working perfect entirely. Most games are always requiring a fix or patch after they are released. I dont believe anyone person here that doesnt work for any company or group that makes games can say that this game is a waste of time or is a rushed product because you dont have the experience of making these kinds of games and how much time and effort and how much one person must do in order to make this. Unless you can honestly say that you could do a better job and make a game that would not need any such tweaking after its release, the only thing you are doing by talking smack about Konami is making yourself look like a douchebag. |
Meh, sure no games are ever released perfectly, many games need fixing and patches, etc. Yes it may not have been a waste of time or rushed because Konami wanted us to see SuperNova. And yes many games are tweaked after they are released.
However, why should Konami get any pardon at all? They have been "developing" SuperNova for the past couple of years and it still was released with these glaring errors. I don't remember DDR 3rd Mix through Extreme needing a patch, or a fix, or having dozens of offsync songs and errors left and right. The fact of the matter is Konami has released dozens of music games and none of them needed a fixing up after they were released or were so bugged that they got a backlash from the music gaming community. Konami was lazy with the testing of Supernova and obviously chose to overlook many things.
A company known for such perfection and domination in their genre of games shouldn't be messing up like this. It would be like the next Super Smash Bros. game having a couple of characters that don't work, or are bugged, or Final Fantasy 12 having areas you can't enter because SQEX didn't finish making the game. SuperNOVA is incomplete, end of story.
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triad.spacefight
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Joined: 19 Jul 2004
Location: OKC |
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abc12345
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Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Location: New York |
| 282. Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:21 am Post subject: |
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Doesnt Konami have a case with Roxor? In another thread someone said that Konami is using Supernova against Roxor, and that when they go to court Konami will either say "see our games keep on top just as good as Roxor" or " look Roxor is taking all our profits."So Konami rushed it out to make profits before that deadline day.
Im on a misguided evidence with myself so sorry if its wrong. |
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zombiejesus9001
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Joined: 05 Apr 2004
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| 283. Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:28 am Post subject: |
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Were can I get the bg video? Just dl the mp4 off of googlevideo and just edit the video with vegas or premiere? |
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Wolfman Jake
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Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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| 284. Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| dj-Luminus wrote: | However, why should Konami get any pardon at all? They have been "developing" SuperNova for the past couple of years and it still was released with these glaring errors. I don't remember DDR 3rd Mix through Extreme needing a patch, or a fix, or having dozens of offsync songs and errors left and right. The fact of the matter is Konami has released dozens of music games and none of them needed a fixing up after they were released or were so bugged that they got a backlash from the music gaming community. Konami was lazy with the testing of Supernova and obviously chose to overlook many things.
A company known for such perfection and domination in their genre of games shouldn't be messing up like this. It would be like the next Super Smash Bros. game having a couple of characters that don't work, or are bugged, or Final Fantasy 12 having areas you can't enter because SQEX didn't finish making the game. SuperNOVA is incomplete, end of story. |
HA! Go play some actual 3rd MIX and then say that again with a straight face. Extreme had some f'ed up synch on songs too. Square has released Final Fantasy games with their shares of bugs too. Heck, they used to rush the FF games out the door so fast in Japan that they'd have to cut content to reach their deadlines. The "extra content" for international releases was just stuff that was finished in the time it took to localize and market the game elsewhere. Then, they can sell the "improved" game to the Japanese consumers. They don't get a patch. They get the honor of paying for an impcolete game and then buying the game AGAIN to get the content they couldn't have before. Hey, remember Sonic 3? SEGA REALLY put a rush job on that one. I'm not talking about hacking out half the levels so they could sell us the game in two parts for half price. The wall clipping was HORRIBLE in that game. Gain any sort of speed, and you were likely to get yourself stuck in a wall with no escape. IN the game's instruction manual, SEGA even tried to play off these collision detection problems as "Dr. Robotnik's Speed Traps. The only way out is to let the timer expire or reset." WTF?
Long story short: there are NO saints in the world of videogame development. Be happy that there IS a patch on the way. Most messed up products on the market NEVER get a fix.
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dj-Luminus
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA |
| 285. Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | dj-Luminus wrote: | However, why should Konami get any pardon at all? They have been "developing" SuperNova for the past couple of years and it still was released with these glaring errors. I don't remember DDR 3rd Mix through Extreme needing a patch, or a fix, or having dozens of offsync songs and errors left and right. The fact of the matter is Konami has released dozens of music games and none of them needed a fixing up after they were released or were so bugged that they got a backlash from the music gaming community. Konami was lazy with the testing of Supernova and obviously chose to overlook many things.
A company known for such perfection and domination in their genre of games shouldn't be messing up like this. It would be like the next Super Smash Bros. game having a couple of characters that don't work, or are bugged, or Final Fantasy 12 having areas you can't enter because SQEX didn't finish making the game. SuperNOVA is incomplete, end of story. |
HA! Go play some actual 3rd MIX and then say that again with a straight face. Extreme had some f'ed up synch on songs too. Square has released Final Fantasy games with their shares of bugs too. Heck, they used to rush the FF games out the door so fast in Japan that they'd have to cut content to reach their deadlines. The "extra content" for international releases was just stuff that was finished in the time it took to localize and market the game elsewhere. Then, they can sell the "improved" game to the Japanese consumers. They don't get a patch. They get the honor of paying for an impcolete game and then buying the game AGAIN to get the content they couldn't have before. Hey, remember Sonic 3? SEGA REALLY put a rush job on that one. I'm not talking about hacking out half the levels so they could sell us the game in two parts for half price. The wall clipping was HORRIBLE in that game. Gain any sort of speed, and you were likely to get yourself stuck in a wall with no escape. IN the game's instruction manual, SEGA even tried to play off these collision detection problems as "Dr. Robotnik's Speed Traps. The only way out is to let the timer expire or reset." WTF?
Long story short: there are NO saints in the world of videogame development. Be happy that there IS a patch on the way. Most messed up products on the market NEVER get a fix. |
I've played 3rd mix, that was the mix I started on, I didn't say 2nd Mix-EX because I haven't played a dedicated 2nd. Either way, 3rd Mix didn't have many off-sync songs and it's harder to tell on 30 FPS, at its time nobody was complaning. And from my knowledge Extreme has maybe a couple of off-sync (and only off-sync to a small degree) songs that have not had people outraged and causing Konami to release a patch.
I am happy a patch is coming, and yes I know other games have errors or unfinished content or whatever, my main point is that SuperNOVA is under Konami's "par" for dancing games and not the same finisse or polish that we're used to from the DDR series (hell ever since EXTREME US came out none of the DDR games have been what they used to be)
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Justican
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Location: UK |
| 286. Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:27 am Post subject: |
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WazNNathaN is completely right, Luminus, your going a bit over the board here.
| dj-Luminus wrote: | | However, why should Konami get any pardon at all? |
Well for one, Beston is distributing the hardware, and the hardware is alot differant to both the EU and JP arcade cabs. I can see that the hardware and software versions may not match to give to out of sync songs. They both get the blame, but I for one like to commend them for brining out a new mix that has a promising FUTURE (please heed this word, fixing something does take time and by the time a third incarnation of US DDR AC comes out, it will be just as "buggy/complete" as Extreme)
| dj-Luminus wrote: | | They have been "developing" SuperNova for the past couple of years |
Get proof, and again, from my first point, the US hardware may not of been concieved untill half a year ago, so with no word from konami, your point cannot stand.
| dj-Luminus wrote: | | and it still was released with these glaring errors. |
What??!! Where!?!? seriously, there not THAT glaring, unless your a PA player or you need to play every single song to perfection, theres errors will be gone by the time Internet Ranking comes out. Most people seem to pickout on the unfamiliar song choosing system more then the offsync songs, this IS counting people that dont surf online.
| dj-Luminus wrote: | | I don't remember DDR 3rd Mix through Extreme needing a patch, or a fix, or having dozens of offsync songs and errors left and right. |
Have you lived in Japan for the last 8 years and played each game the same day it was released? Im not saying that they did get them, but I know internet ranking was added later for one of the games. Also, everyone knows that the final version of Extreme has a few offsync songs. I know its a drastic differance compared to supernova, but to alot of people here, like me, have 2 out of sync songs or 20 means they its still unfinished and they can still improve on the game.
| dj-Luminus wrote: | | The fact of the matter is Konami has released dozens of music games and none of them needed a fixing up after they were released or were so bugged that they got a backlash from the music gaming community. |
I can think of at least 3, but concidering you live in the US with only a limited number of music games, you wont of noticed the number of times Konami has shipped the hardware with beta software and upgraded it later.
| dj-Luminus wrote: | | Konami was lazy with the testing of Supernova and obviously chose to overlook many things. |
Then again, region comes into place, in Japan everything is good, people are enjoying the game, in the EU many people are finding a few offsync songs but only a few giving it harsh crititism, the out of sync songs only comprise of a small percentage of the game. However the US, Betson + Konami Hardware dont seem to be fully tested, but looking at what Betson used to test the game, are you suprised that bugs like you are bringing up would be found on the machines? And again, this is new hardware for betson, so for a fully tested machine, yeah the WINTER 2006 would of definatly gave you the desired machine, then again, would the software still be buggy?
| dj-Luminus wrote: | | A company known for such perfection and domination in their genre of games shouldn't be messing up like this. It would be like the next Super Smash Bros. game having a couple of characters that don't work, or are bugged, or Final Fantasy 12 having areas you can't enter because SQEX didn't finish making the game. SuperNOVA is incomplete, end of story. |
There where buggy characters in the Smash bros games, nothing much noticable but overpowered characters (and underpowered) can be concidered buggy, In fact take a character with underpowered moves, its just as hard to win with that character as it is to scores on a song with bad syncing, Im sure with a patch, the character/song can be brought back to be playable. In Final Fantasy games, there was lots of extra areas added to the games in games for the other regions (Example, Ruby and Emerald Weapon), thats where they got the internation version from. Also, your could be right on the dot, I know many games with secret areas you are never suppose to get to, how can someone complete mario 64 in 15 mins, simple CHEAT!!! although compared to Supernova, its very beneficial compared to crippling.
But still, Its good to see that they release a "temporary" version of the game and update it later, for console we know this isnt possible, but it was up to konami to release it now so we could get a sneak peak, or wait till winter, where the game is going to be the same as the version disk shipping soon.
Your rush to play the unfinished version and then not playing on the finished version is YOUR DECISION and, therefore when the new version is released, we can say your opinion is invalidated because your not playing the right game version. Obviosly, online gaming shares this reasoning. Although Megamix and Extreme are IDEALLY the same, you cannot give an opinion on one and then give the same impression about the other, as they have changes to some key elements, same applied to supernova. [/b]
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tora
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Joined: 16 Nov 2002
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| 287. Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:09 am Post subject: |
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It should be noted that Betson is only responsible for the cabinet portion of "the hardware," as that it's Konami supplying them the BEMANI PS2 hardware to run the game. :'|
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Wolfman Jake
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Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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| 288. Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| djTORA fw/ Yossie wrote: | | It should be noted that Betson is only responsible for the cabinet portion of "the hardware," as that it's Konami supplying them the BEMANI PS2 hardware to run the game. :'| |
But the "cabinet" portion includes the audio hardware, which is a very likely suspect in this situation.
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triad.spacefight
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Joined: 19 Jul 2004
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jbean3535
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Joined: 08 May 2004
Location: KC Kansas |
| 290. Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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Here- You are an arcade owner. Would you pay 16K for a game thats not finished? Exactly my point.
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sephiroth1215
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Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Yorktown Hts., NY |
| 291. Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| jbean3535 wrote: | | Here- You are an arcade owner. Would you pay 16K for a game thats not finished? Exactly my point. |
Yes because everyone will play it anyway and it WILL be fixed. |
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Xopher
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Joined: 23 Jan 2002
Location: Benton, AR |
| 292. Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| sephiroth1215 wrote: | | jbean3535 wrote: | | Here- You are an arcade owner. Would you pay 16K for a game thats not finished? Exactly my point. |
Yes because everyone will play it anyway and it WILL be fixed. |
QFAT.
We at my arcade would gladly give up our 90% on-sync Extreme machine for an off-sync SuperNova.
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Cutriss
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
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| 293. Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| jbean3535 wrote: | | Here- You are an arcade owner. Would you pay 16K for a game thats not finished? Exactly my point. |
At least 75% of arcade operators have likely bought machines they knew to either be complete and total bootlegs or ripoffs.
Add to that sephiroth1215's statement - the arcade operator probably won't even know that the gave has any issues when he buys it. He'll just know that he's getting the latest version in that big dancing game...whatchacallit...Dee Dee Arr? And that it'll make him beaucoup dollars.
If Betson sends him a letter or a fax two months after he purchases it with update instructions, that's probably the only way he'd ever know. And it'd hardly be the first time he's had to update a game. I know I'm stirring up a hornet's nest by talking technical terms about SoulCalibur II, but there were a string of SC2 patches, but the game was perfectly playable without any of them. I don't recall hearing of mass riots or The Rapture when SC2 hit arcades. People made money, people had fun, the end.
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triad.spacefight
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Joined: 19 Jul 2004
Location: OKC |
| 294. Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| sephiroth1215 wrote: | | jbean3535 wrote: | | Here- You are an arcade owner. Would you pay 16K for a game thats not finished? Exactly my point. |
Yes because everyone will play it anyway and it WILL be fixed. |
No, they will go and play on a working machine, or mob the latest Andamiro cabinet they can find.
It's a broken game people. It's being fixed, but the damage has already been done to Konami, as some of us aren't going to drop our quarters/tokens into a SuperNOVA, but a Pump:Zero/ITG2-3 instead. Not trying to convince you people to do it. Just my choice.
Had they waited till September, dropped SN and SNPS2 at the same time, and worked out more QA issues, they would have KILLED the competition. They chose not to, and that's the problem they will have in the future.
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Sweet Potato
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Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Sexy |
| 295. Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| [TRIAD] OmegaSox wrote: | | sephiroth1215 wrote: | | jbean3535 wrote: | | Here- You are an arcade owner. Would you pay 16K for a game thats not finished? Exactly my point. |
Yes because everyone will play it anyway and it WILL be fixed. |
No, they will go and play on a working machine, or mob the latest Andamiro cabinet they can find. |
Actually everyone I know is outraged by the price of SuperNOVA and the fact that it is offsync, but they still get enjoyment out of the game. They still put their quarters into the game and they are NOT blind fanboys. I rarely see an ITG or PIU near a SuperNOVA so my friends don't go "gee this song is off sync i hate Konami ill go play ITG and hate ddr cause its cool to hate ddr all the elite kids do it." I enjoy all music games and can't understand why people are so pissy. Sure I was a little upset that I got 20 more greats on a song, but I still had a lot of fun playing SuperNOVA. If you guys want to complain over a game go ahead. I won't let you completely spoil my fun. |
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Da Bar
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Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Location: in ur bowlz, flowerin' my Viacom |
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Cutriss
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
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| 297. Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| Da Bar wrote: | | others are trying to get one of the arcades to sell their sn and get a 6th mix. |
You'd like to get rid of a machine with over 300 songs just so you can play Ghost, FITN, BBBB, and Follow Me?
Man, are you also in the bridge market?
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Da Bar
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Cutriss
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| 299. Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| Da Bar wrote: | | as i said, we have two sn's nearby, so we'd like a li'l more variety =P |
Then go get a 4th Plus or a 5th Mix.  DDRMAX is basically what you'd want to get if you already had SN, Extreme, 4th Plus, DS Fusion, Max2, Solo 2000, 3rd Mix, Dreams Come True, True Kiss Destination, Disney's Rave, and Spider Stomp.
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