ITG's difficulty ratings... um, FAQ?

[IHYD.Tiza]

Ok, so I was meaning to wrap up the whole DDR 10 vs ITG 10 debate that I read in the "DDR player getting started with ITG?" thread in a nice, thought-out nutshell, but I ended up getting detailed and going nuts on the whole difficulty units system. Advance warning: looooong post and lots of big words. Don't say I didn't warn you.

ITG's difficulty scale was designed to mirror and then expand on DDR's. Most difficulties in ITG line up quite well with DDR's, with a few creative liberties. Many steps in the Easy and Medium difficulties blur the lines between classifications a bit, but nothing too severe or noticable. The ratings 1-8 in ITG are pretty much exactly what you'd expect from 1-8 foot songs in DDR.

Where things start getting complicated are at and above level 9. ITG has only a handful of level 9 steps that sink below the level of DDR's hardest 9 foot steps, and they have plenty that put the toughest DDR 9 footers to shame. Basically, ITG breaks the 16th note barrier, so to speak, in the sense that DDR had very few 16th notes that weren't used in gallops, whereas ITG has non-galloping 16th notes in almost every single level 9 step. Being able to pass DDR 9 foot songs doesn't mean you can pass ITG 9 foot songs in the least. Things get even messier once you look into the double-digit realm. ITG breaks new ground with the creation of level 11, 12, and 13, and with a huge selection of level 10 steps, you start wondering how in the world a song like Queen of Light can be rated at the same level as, say, MaxX Unlimited.

IMHO, not all the DDR 10s evenly fit into one ITG category. In DDR, 10 feet was the catchall term for something really hard by Konami's standards. It's plain that Bag and PSMO can't be compared equally. I've noticed a pattern in ITG's level designations, which is why I hold by Roxor's levels when others reject them. My opinions of the DDR 10 to the ITG 10 are as follows:

ITG's level 10 steps are songs that are at or around the difficulty level of Max 300 and/or Paranoia Survivor. They expand the variety of 10s greatly, however; instead of relying only on very fast songs with a few bursts of stream, they vary from extremely technical songs (i.e. Queen of Light, Oasis), to songs with faster stream bursts then Max 300 or Paranoia Survivor (i.e. Remember December, Hand of Time), a series of longer, slower streams (i.e. Fleadh Uncut, Spin Chicken), or some combination of patterns that take the difficulty beyond the scope of a 9 (i.e. Anubis, Bend Your Mind).

ITG's level 11 steps are songs that take the "standard" DDR 10 a step beyond. This is accomplished either by taking the fast or long streams of the level 10 steps and making them last the full length of the song (i.e. Xuxa, Charlene, July), dropping the tempo and making complex stream patterns (i.e. The Beginning, Mythology), turning up the speed to a new high (i.e. Destiny, Infection), further increasing the amount of technicality and mixing it with more difficult patterns (i.e. Clockwork Genesis, Utopia, Vertex² Hard), or creating a song that's simply longer, faster, and more unrelenting than any 10 (Pandemonium Hard, Monolith).

ITG's level 12 steps are steps that push the limits of what seems to be feasable. They usually employ some kind of now-signature ITG speed gimmick, which also fall under several predictable categories: high speed step-jump patterns, extremely fast trills, or alternating two-arrow patterns of 24th or 32nd notes, a relentless series of high speed stream patterns, or an extreme variation of an ITG technicality. They each mix and match these gimmicks with varying intensities. For example, Tell combines high speed step-jump patterns and long stream patterns, while Energizer has faster streams and fewer step-jumps. Likewise, Hardcore of the North has 24th note trills at a peak of 169BPM mixed in with long 16th note stream patterns, while Euphoria uses longer 32nd note trills at 140BPM with little straightforward stream. Delirium is the epitome of an ITG-style death run, while Determinator embodies the new level of raw speed.

ITG's 13s are simple enough to define, in the fact that they are undefinably difficult. There are only three so far, and they each fall cleanly in three easy (hah, oxymoron) categories: stamina, speed, and technique (and I use the term "technique" terribly loosely). Pandemonium, hands-down the most difficult, is a literally constant barrage of 8th note stream and step-jumps at 330BPM, with the only mirage of a break coming in a rhythmic section near the beginning full of freeze arrows and doublesteps. Summer is death by Happy Hardcore, packing immensely long 16th note streams at 185BPM alongside a few complex rhythm sections, a few mine-dodging trials, a pair of freeze arrow turns, and a trio of handslaps hidden in stops. Vertex² is the oddball of the group, mixing freeze arrow patterns with crossovers and doublesteps, a few fairly formidable runs, tempo changes galore, an mind-bendingly fast and complex 24th note trill series at 175BPM, and groups of step-jump patterns and handslaps, all while masking almost every single arrow in a swarm of mines.

IMHO, DDR's 10s (the ones I've played, at least) would fit into ITG by Roxor's standards in the following manner:
9 - Bag, Sakura
10 - Max 300, Paranoia Survivor, Paranoia Survivor Max (Heavy), Max 300 (Super-Max-Me Mix), The Legend of Max, Max. (period) Oni, MaxX Unlimited
11 - Paranoia ~Respect~, Max. (period) (Heavy), Paranoia Survivor Max (Oni)

In conclusion, I really shouldn't be staying up until 4:30 in the morning writing stuff like this. Oh well... I hope some of you have the patience and/or interest to actually read it.
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[The Lurker]

I read it, well done. I only read it because you actually broke everything down, you kept going on with the subject at hand. You just did not decide to sit down and just type. You worked on this. I can tell.

It explains everything very well, if you can get this going into the FAQ, maybe even a doubles can be thrown in also.



Justin.
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[Capajoe]

[Reenee]

[Capajoe]

I dont even think MaxX belongs with the 11's just psmo. If tension is a 10 so is maxx.

[IHYD.Tiza]

That's why I tagged "IMHO" in front of the DDR 10 listing.

Max. (period) isn't nearly that hard, but if the gimmick acceleration to 612BPM in Vertex is all it takes to be considered a 12, then Max. (period) should get the designation as well for a MUCH more difficult speedup section.

I just have a grudge against Unlimited, really. It could go either way, but I thought if ! could be called a 12 just for being exceptionally tricky but not all that hard, Unlimited can go the same direction.

PSMO has a pretty fast pace for the entire song, but in hindsight is sorta reminds me as The Beginning on crack with fewer crossovers until the end.

It's really opinion at this point, since ITG broke down what DDR did not. If you look at it from a different angle, you might say that everything except LoM, PSMO, and both Max. (period) steps are 11s, since Konami dubbed them Flashing 10s, and the rest are just plain old 10s. Looking at it in terms of a direct comparison of difficulty, however, I think you guys have the better point. Main post edited.

[DAF]

A very good breakdown of the difficulty in ITG as compared to DDR.


Suggestion- The faster DDR 10's constantly have the player moving while songs like fleadh uncut and spin chicken throw in mini breaks. That might be something to take note of since Max 300 requires more stamina than a good amount of the ITG 10's.
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[ColorOfSakura]

[NSMH]

[Fr0sty]

That's really in the eye of the beholder. I consider the beginning of Max300 a break. I consider the freeze arrows a break. And I consider the triplets a break. I'm sure I could break even more on the song. The only parts I REALLY don't consider breaks are the 8th note runs that consist of more than two different arrows and that's because I don't bar rape (not saying bar raping makes you less tired, just saying that staying on two arrows is a lot less harder for me than shifting my weight around four arrows).

Actually, all the Max songs have a break, whether it consists of freeze arrows, slow downs, or just easy patterns.

PS- Add Super-Max-Me-Mix if you're gonna add Max.(period) and -Respect- just because I like the song

[Capajoe]

Super Max Me Mix would be an 11. Its basicly MaxX Unlimited.

[J. S. Mill]

JT, this was a very impressive post. Would I be able to get your permission to mirror it on my website?
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[Joel Stud?!]

Amazing, the only intelligent comparison I've ever seen. Perosnally I think that DDR tens are ALL stamina, so they are a little difficult to place. I would compare all of the DDR tens other than Sakura 11's (I haven't played Bag, Respect, or Max. (period)). I have bad stamina and thus can make it through all of the ITG 10s except for Mythology and Anubis pretty easily (Anubis more my crappy pad, Mythology I die on). But overall this is a very true comparison.

[J. S. Mill]

Um...are you playing at home? This comparison doesn't really apply to home versions, where (for instance) every DDR song is about an ITG Arcade 7 footer.
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[IHYD.Tiza]

[0rion]

[Synaesthesia]

Pandemonium is just flat-out tiring throughout the entire song, though. Summer reminds me of a hyped-up version of Delirium. VerTex^2, while probably not as consistently tiring as Pandy, is (probably) ridiculously hard to FA.
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[IHYD.Tiza]

[Tyrgannus]

Well, I recently started playin' ITG but I've been playing DDR for a while (I've already read up on the DDR player new to ITG thread.)

Anyways, as far as DDR goes, I am an accomplished player, not amazing, but accomplished. I can pass PSMO consistently, so that tells you something.

There's a point to this post, sorry. I was just saying that while the difficulty ratings do compare to DDR somewhat, they don't entirely. I COMPLETELY AGREE that PSMO is an ITG 11, and if people disagree and call me a n00b, then whatever. PSMO is hardcore stamina+tricky crossovers+decent footspeed (Decent, there is most definitely faster runs in dance games.)
What does Charlene got for it? Stream. If you can pass PSMO, then Charlene shouldn't be a problem para nada.

However, Hardcore of the North is still a joke hard for me, I tried it 3 times today just to realize that I can't do a 12-footer yet. (I just got ITG for Christmas, so give me a break.)
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AA Bob wrote:

Summer is as much of a 12 as PSMO is a 9.

[0rion]

Try VerTex or Go 60s Go. Those are both FAR easier 12s than Hardcore of the North.

If you can beat PSMO, you can almost certainly beat VerTex.
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