DDR Freak :: View topic

Forums FAQ

Memberlist

Usergroups

Profile

Reviving DDR
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next

This topic is locked you cannot edit posts or make replies

DDR Freak Forum Index -> DDR Chit-Chat

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author

Message

thisismyoldusername:P
Trick Member

Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Location: Butt Town

20. Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:05 am Post subject:

Even if Konami doesn't make anything, ITG isn't a full-time replacement. Perhaps a work in progress, but I have yet to see their game evolve like DDR did. _________________ ...and I'm just cool like that.

Boochypa
Trick Member

Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: VA Tech

21.

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:37 am Post subject:

99999 wrote:

Even if Konami doesn't make anything, ITG isn't a full-time replacement. Perhaps a work in progress, but I have yet to see their game evolve like DDR did.

What the hell are you talking about? ITG made more changes to arrow-smash in its first game than DDR did over eight arcade mixes.

ColorOfSakura
Trick Member

Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Location: The user formerly known as Zajitarrius

22.

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:57 pm Post subject:

lolinternet wrote:

Let it die. Even if Konami comes out with a new arcade mix (not gonna happen), it won't have the depth or replayability that ITG2 has right now. You'll still be stuck taking pictures of scores and playing crappy 7/8/9 foot charts that are gonna suck just as much as the ones on Extreme.

The more recognition ITG gets the better. It has ten times the depth that DDR will ever have.

We're (the dance game community) lucky enough to have a company that actually maintains a dialogue with it's customers. Do you think Konami will ever do that? We need to support Roxor as much as we can; companies like them are one in a million.

Please, LET DDR DIE. Support and promote ITG and Roxor whenever you can, because it's the only way to keep the (arcade) community alive.

I wanna see what happens when Uiru gets a hold of this post. LOL.

Yeah. Roxor is such a great company. I think a company that lies to their fanbase about the legality of their game is completely awesome. </sarcasm>

Quote:

What the hell are you talking about? ITG made more changes to arrow-smash in its first game than DDR did over eight arcade mixes.

Oh yes, gimmicks like Handplants (which DDR DID have a few times and no one liked) and Mines completely make ITG a better game than DDR.

Oh, and making stepcharts that have 3802375098234750928374509238 steps in two minutes IS SO TOTALLY INNOVATIVE.

ITG is a nice game, but it is another dance game. Just like DDR. They both have strengths and they both have weaknesses. Neither game is better than the other.

ITG did not innovate the Dance game genre. All it did was revive interest. Nothing that ITG offers is really substantial to the change of the "arrow smashing" genre of gaming. ITG is not innovative, it copies off a formula that was already set up by other programmers and then never gave any of them credit.

That's not innovative, that's stealing.
_________________

lolinternet
Trick Member

Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Location: Woodhaven, MI

23.

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:32 pm Post subject:

Zajitarrius (CJâ¶âRemix) wrote:

lolinternet wrote:

Quote:

What the hell are you talking about? ITG made more changes to arrow-smash in its first game than DDR did over eight arcade mixes.

Wait wait, let me get this straight. They completely and absolutely brought back to life the long dead dance game community (YES, DDR was pretty much dead), yet didn't innovate at all?

If what they did is stealing, and not innovation as you say, then did the original Tomb Raider "steal" the concept from Fade to Black? Did Unreal "steal" from Quake, or Doom? If you honestly think that expanding on a genre is by making a game that follows it is"stealing", then pretty much every single game out right now that isn't absolutely 100% original is nothing but stolen content.

Your argument just plain sucks dude. Sorry. Roxor did nothing that any other design company hasn't done in the past. They took a genre and expanded on it with a new game. That isn't, and will never be stealing.

I'm not gonna argue whether ITG stepcharts, mines, hands, whatever is innovative. Anybody who knows what the hell they're talking about knows that Konami really doesn't care that players were bored with 8s, 9s, and horrible 10s. I'll leave it at that.

Boochypa
Trick Member

Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: VA Tech

24.

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:46 pm Post subject:

Zajitarrius (CJâ¶âRemix) wrote:

words

You've pretty clearly indicated that you have no idea of the scope of the improvements that ITG has made over DDR. Consequently, you aren't worth arguing with.

ColorOfSakura
Trick Member

Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Location: The user formerly known as Zajitarrius

25.

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:57 pm Post subject:

Boochypa wrote:

Zajitarrius (CJâ¶âRemix) wrote:

words

You've pretty clearly indicated that you have no idea of the scope of the improvements that ITG has made over DDR. Consequently, you aren't worth arguing with.

First off, if you have paid the SLIGHTEST bit of attention to the dance game genre, then you would know that ALL the ideas the In The Groove team used in ITG to "innovate" over DDR had already been implemented in StepMania for about 6 months prior to the release of the game.

Thusly, it was the StepMania community that innovated the dance game genre, not Roxor. Roxor just took the SM Team's ideas and put them into a cabinet.
_________________

Antipathy
Trick Member

Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Location: Kansas

26. Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:06 pm Post subject:

ya the mainstream public has thrown DDR away like all the other fads and such, but as for us DDR freaks, we will never let go!!! _________________ 'nuff said

quax94
Trick Member

Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Wisconsin

27. Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:24 pm Post subject:

I think DDR is dying because eople think that DDR is old school and playing more ITG, PIU, and TM(not realy sure).I think DDR should go back to the good days of DDR.Ya know, dancers, basic, trick, maniac.DDR is still popular but not very, but it will never die. _________________

lolinternet
Trick Member

Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Location: Woodhaven, MI

28.

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:43 pm Post subject:

Zajitarrius (CJâ¶âRemix) wrote:

Boochypa wrote:

Zajitarrius (CJâ¶âRemix) wrote:

words

You've pretty clearly indicated that you have no idea of the scope of the improvements that ITG has made over DDR. Consequently, you aren't worth arguing with.

Whoa so they came up with the ideas six months before ITG's release? Damn dude, that's crazy. I mean, who would have thought that Roxor could steal everybody elses ideas and develope an entirely new game at the same time in under 6 months?

ColorOfSakura
Trick Member

Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Location: The user formerly known as Zajitarrius

29.

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:02 pm Post subject:

lolinternet wrote:

Zajitarrius (CJâ¶âRemix) wrote:

Boochypa wrote:

Zajitarrius (CJâ¶âRemix) wrote:

words

You've pretty clearly indicated that you have no idea of the scope of the improvements that ITG has made over DDR. Consequently, you aren't worth arguing with.

I apologize, I wrote that out incorrectly.

It should be that the features were implemented 6 months before Roxor announced that they were releasing In The Groove.

I remember very specifically having mines implemented into StepMania well before ITG even came out or was announced. I understand that some of the StepMania dev team does work with Roxor as well as PulseNetwork and Pop'nKO but the fact remains that nowhere on any of the In The Groove products does the game state "Run on StepMania technology". Sure, the credits do give thanks to the StepMania community, but I think that Roxor should be required to mention that they do run ITG on StepMania's technology.

I also never said that Roxor stole anything from the StepMania team. I said that Roxor took the ideas of the SM team and put them in a cabinet. They took them freely because the SM Project is OPEN SOURCE and they are legally allowed to do so.

When I mentioned Roxor stealing, I specifically meant them stealing from Konami. Even though they got the source code for their game from the SM Dev team, I do not hold the SM Dev team responsible for "stealing" from Konami because they offered StepMania up for FREE, not for profit. They didn't charge for it and they did not package official music with it.

Roxor on the other hand, is charging money for source code that was essentially first developed by KCET. They also told everyone they had already worked out the legal issues with Konami. They ruined DDR cabinets as well, but I don't think that hold real merit in the lawsuit. (I'll explain later)

And like I said, I don't hate ITG and I don't hate Roxor, but I do think Roxor has honestly done some really stupid things and they deserve to have Konami sue them for it. I would say the same about PulseNetwork or Pop'nKO if either one of them (or both) did the same thing that Roxor has done.

And don't take this as "I AM A KONAMI FANBOY. OMGZ DDR FOREVER." because seriously, I think that it's good we have different dance games out because Konami isn't making them anymore. I think Konami is taking their lawsuit out of hand as well because they're suing Roxor over cabinets that aren't even legally supposed to be in the United States anyways. BUT, it is their product and their money that went into making the cabinets, so I take neutral stance on that point in the lawsuit.

Both games have their pros and cons! Both companies have made stupid decisions!

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, I honestly don't take a stance one way or the other.
_________________

thisismyoldusername:P
Trick Member

Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Location: Butt Town

30.

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:24 pm Post subject:

Dohreguard wrote:

ya the mainstream public has thrown DDR away like all the other fads and such, but as for us DDR freaks, we will never let go!!!

Exactly. DDR may be dying out in arcades, but it's the game that started it all. ITG is simply the next step above DDR, but ultimately, it's the same game. I don't know what YOU people are talking about, because, for one, ITG is just a marketed stepmania mix, so every "new feature" on there, was on stepmania before. They didn't make "more progress than konami ever did" they just took what DDR had and put it on crack.

Edit:

Zajitarrius (CJâ¶âRemix) wrote:

lolinternet wrote:

Zajitarrius (CJâ¶âRemix) wrote:

Boochypa wrote:

Zajitarrius (CJâ¶âRemix) wrote:

words

You've pretty clearly indicated that you have no idea of the scope of the improvements that ITG has made over DDR. Consequently, you aren't worth arguing with.

Stepmania has been out for years now, not six months. No one should be siding with any particular game, because that makes you an ignorant fanboy. I play all the games as well, but I have zero tolerence for people who are slaves to herd mentality. ITG is not God. Just because it has harder songs for you to drool over doesn't mean you need to play it and nothing else.
_________________

...and I'm just cool like that.

Boochypa
Trick Member

Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: VA Tech

31.

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:15 pm Post subject:

99999 wrote:

Just because it has harder songs for you to drool over doesn't mean you need to play it and nothing else.

Actually, it does.

ITG is a lot more fun than DDR because DDR is too easy to the point of being boring (and infuriating at the same time).

It doesn't matter that most of ITG's features were present in stepmania first; they still took the initiative to box all of that awesomeness into an arcade cabinet. Why do you think people play ITG (or DDR for that matter) in arcades if all they have plus more is available for stepmania at home? It's because the arcade provides an entirely different experience (plus an aspect of community) that people are willing to pay for.

ITG didn't reinvent the dance game genre, but it did reinvent the dance game people play in an arcade environment.

As an aside, I think that one would have a difficult time arguing that DDR is a better game than ITG considering issues that are not simply a personal preference (such as fondness of the music found in each).

Ryu_Hirakashi
Trick Member

Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Location: Middle River, MD

32.

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:39 am Post subject:

lolinternet wrote:

99999 wrote:

lolinternet wrote:

OMG EVERYONE WORSHIP ROXOR THEY ARE THE BEST EVOR LOLZ!!!!! There's nothing special about Roxor. Konami could still keep up with them if they wanted to. In the Groove is not the "best game". It's good, but no need to sacrifce your hand to it.

I think you missed the point of my post. We should support Roxor because they support us, the dance game community. Konami does not, and will not, not ever.

I couldn't agree more. It's really a shame that there isn't a ITG machine around here. If there had been one, when I got tired of DDR, I would still be training in full force.

I've stopped playing, and I pop'n music owns my life now. Play other bemani. They'll fill that void left by DDR.

Hirakashi Ryu
_________________

Quote:

For a beginner, if learning how to play pop'n music is like a parent holding his / her child's hand while crossing a busty street, then learning to play IIDX is like being kicked out of a moving car in the middle of nowhere and having to scrape enough money for a taxi cab ride home.

Ryu_Hirakashi
Trick Member

Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Location: Middle River, MD

33.

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:40 am Post subject:

Double post!!! Sorry!!
_________________

Quote:

ColorOfSakura
Trick Member

Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Location: The user formerly known as Zajitarrius

34.

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:43 am Post subject:

99999 wrote:

Oh yeah, I know Stepmania has been out for years, I was just making a point that they were implementing mines into the core gameplay before In The Groove was even announced. And I really don't believe they were added to the StepMania program specifically for In The Groove.
_________________

thisismyoldusername:P
Trick Member

Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Location: Butt Town

35.

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:58 pm Post subject:

Zajitarrius (CJâ¶âRemix) wrote:

99999 wrote:

Neither do I.

Boochypa wrote:

99999 wrote:

Just because it has harder songs for you to drool over doesn't mean you need to play it and nothing else.

Actually, it does.

ITG is a lot more fun than DDR because DDR is too easy to the point of being boring (and infuriating at the same time).

If a game is "boring and infuriating" to you just because it's easy, maybe you should reconsider how to play a dancing game. Plenty of people search for old mixes because they just want to take a break from all the obsessive competition and the whoring of fast songs. When DDR Extreme was new, people liked 5th mix. Maybe now, ITG takes the place of DDR Extreme, and Extreme is like a 5th mix to us.

Boochypa wrote:

It doesn't matter that most of ITG's features were present in stepmania first; they still took the initiative to box all of that awesomeness into an arcade cabinet. Why do you think people play ITG (or DDR for that matter) in arcades if all they have plus more is available for stepmania at home? It's because the arcade provides an entirely different experience (plus an aspect of community) that people are willing to pay for.

ITG didn't reinvent the dance game genre, but it did reinvent the dance game people play in an arcade environment.

As an aside, I think that one would have a difficult time arguing that DDR is a better game than ITG considering issues that are not simply a personal preference (such as fondness of the music found in each).

You can install other versions of stepmania on an arcade machine. In The Groove wasn't the first. Period. In The Groove is popular because it feeds us more challenges than before, so yes, that is true. HOWEVER...

99999 wrote:

Even if Konami doesn't make anything, ITG isn't a full-time replacement.

ITG was the next step above DDR. Like you said yourself, ITG is bigger and better because it's harder, but what else is there? What else makes ITG the almighty game that people love? Nothing. I really pity all of you if you think dancing games are only for playing the hardest songs to date (which aren't on ITG, trust me).
_________________

...and I'm just cool like that.

lolinternet
Trick Member

Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Location: Woodhaven, MI

36.

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 4:27 am Post subject:

99999 wrote:

Even if Konami doesn't make anything, ITG isn't a full-time replacement.

99999 wrote:

Really? Where can you play harder songs with good charts in the arcade? It certainly isn't on a DDR cabinet, that's for sure.

PIU mixes still haven't figured out how to make songs hard and fun at the same time, just like Konami. They are still stuck on the "hard for the sake of being hard" mentality, and don't realize that charts can be hard and fun at the same time.

Roxor on the other hand pretty much got the formula 100% right. I think what you should be asking is, "What else makes the almighty DDR the game that people love?"

The answer is nothing. Nothing makes it that game that people were so into that ITG doesn't have. So would you rather play the same old rehashed songs with horrid stepcharts on a cabinet that's at least three years old, or would you rather play new songs with new, better, and harder (if you like) stepcharts, on a brand new cabinet?

You're probably one of those people who won't even give ITG a chance because it's "not Japenese."

There's a word for people like you, you know.

ColorOfSakura
Trick Member

Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Location: The user formerly known as Zajitarrius

37.

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:52 am Post subject:

lolinternet wrote:

The 90% of the Expert charts on ITG are nowhere near fun. The only fun EX charts are the ones that Matt Puls did and July -Euromix- (which I actually think is also Matt Puls, but ITG2 doesn't say the stepartists). The Hard charts are fun, however.

Roxor got it nowhere near right with their Expert charts. They're just as guilty as Konami in the "hard for the sake of being hard" arena. Even looking at the steps, they don't look fun to play. They look stupid and pointless.

And the EX Doubles charts are even worse. HELLO 6 ARROW JUMP ON HABENERA 1.

Quote:

There's a word for people like you, you know.

Don't you dare call him a fanboy.

You're worse of a fanboy than he is. Blindly flailing about how Roxor is God and DDR sucks and that ITG is pretty much perfect. Well guess what, ITG isn't perfect, Roxor isn't God. Neither is Konami or Andamiro or any other game company out there. All the dancing games have flaws. None of them are perfect. In fact, none of them are even close to perfect.

But they're FUN. That's why we play them. I don't play ITG because it's "better" than DDR, because it's not. It's on the same level.
_________________

the legend of maxxxxxxxxx
Trick Member

Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Location: zNC

38.

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:27 pm Post subject:

Zajitarrius (CJâ¶âRemix) wrote:

lolinternet wrote:

Quote:

There's a word for people like you, you know.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
_________________

10 footer heavy/oni grades on 1.5 at an arcade
MaxX-AA
Max 300-AAA Sakura-AAA
PS-AAA
Bag-AAA(x1)
PSMH-AA LOM-AA
PSMO-AA Max period (home version)-AA

thisismyoldusername:P
Trick Member

Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Location: Butt Town

39.

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:48 pm Post subject:

lolinternet wrote:

Really? Where can you play harder songs with good charts in the arcade? It certainly isn't on a DDR cabinet, that's for sure.

DDR has awesome charts, they just aren't loaded with arrows like ITG.

lolinternet wrote:

They are still stuck on the "hard for the sake of being hard" mentality, and don't realize that charts can be hard and fun at the same time.

Let me see what you're trying to say... DDR isn't fun because it's not hard, and yet you hate PIU because it's TOO hard? Where are you drawing the line? Pump it Up is a great game, and their stepcharts are fun. Maybe if you would stop ignoring the songs below "crazy" and "nightmare" you would have more fun.

lolinternet wrote:

"What else makes the almighty DDR the game that people love?"

The songs have been played countless times, people have AAA'd everything before, but the reason why people still play DDR is because it's still fun. Plain and simple.

lolinternet wrote:

So would you rather play the same old rehashed songs with horrid stepcharts on a cabinet that's at least three years old, or would you rather play new songs with new, better, and harder (if you like) stepcharts, on a brand new cabinet?

As a matter of fact, yes I would. You see, I only play In The Groove for about half an hour before I get exhausted and decide to call it quits, but I can play DDR for hours to end. I really don't care how many times I've heard each song. The music itself never dies to me, and the steps for each individual one has helps keep them alive even more. The stepcharts on DDR Extreme aren't horrid. They are all very well done, and if you think otherwise, you obviously don't realize what you're missing out on. I play tons of 7's before I EVER think of doing anything like The Legend of Max or PSMO. Each and every stepchart in DDR has its own unique feel for each difficulty level. The Easy, Medium, and Hard stepcharts on ITG are simplified versions of the Expert ones. Novice is also a lot easier than DDR Extreme's beginner mode.

; Even if you're strictly a heavy/expert player (for whatever reason), In The Groove only has a hand full of songs that are under a 10 rating. THIS eliminates all the variety and dificulty balance, and makes ITG really hard and nothing else. Of course, that's been the basis of all your arguements, so I'm sure it still qualifies as a good game, but only because there are thousands of other people like you who really DON'T play anything else.

You're probably one of those people who won't even give ITG a chance because it's "not Japenese."[/quote] Actually, I play ITG all the time. I wouldn't be giving my oppinion on it if I didn't know anything about it. I enjoy it because it's hard and challenging, just like everyone else does, but my play style doesn't only consist of beating hard songs, which is why I eventually get sick of it after a while and take a break from it. If I wanted to quit playing something because it was too "Japanese" I'd quit dancing games altogether and stick to Pop'n Music. Also, the stereotypical "Japanese game" too broad of a category, and I'd never base my taste in videogames off something like that.

lolinternet wrote:

There's a word for people like you, you know.

Yes, there are plenty. I like "open-minded".
_________________

...and I'm just cool like that.

Display posts from previous:

	DDR Freak Forum Index -> DDR Chit-Chat	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next
Page 2 of 5

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum