Optical DDR Mat

[ch]

does it actually work? have you used it?
_________________

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/index.php?module=see&l=uk&code=36e44d4914f14070cc5b3d4c6bcd1042

CStarFlare wrote:

I approve of the direction this thread is going

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch?e=20090310025322668

[wathomas777]

Yes a raised center with a border would work, and that looks to be the design used in the first photo. To minimize the chance of injury though, you would have to bevel the boarder and the center pretty significantly.

Like I had said before, if you could get the bevel just right, you could have a nearly indestructable pad as there are no moving parts.

[Plautus]

Thanks for the info! I just came back to the forums today after a long hiatus thinking "I wonder if somebody has made an optical pad like they were talking about so long ago."

Too bad the Cds cell approach didn't work. If I'm thinking of the right thread, that sounded like an appealing possibility. I was a bit more skeptical of the breaking-beams-of-light method, but I'll accept the sworn testimony of your friends that it plays a good game of DDR

I'm not as comfortable as I'd like to be with schematics and wiring diagrams, so the LED mat will probably have to wait until I'm a bit more sure of what exactly I'd be doing, but the "lasermat" looks doable from that perspective, assuming the ambient light issue can be managed.

In your opinion (and anyone else's who's worked with these things), do you think the problem with the lasermat could be solved from a construction standpoint if it were built so that the photoreceptors were recessed an inch or more into the (covered) corner panel? Would having the receptor at the end of a long hole effectively filter out the light which isn't aimed directly at it?

Again, I appreciate you "showing your work" on this.

[ch]

[CNLohr]

1) Load sensors still die eventually.

2) All of the mats are heavily beveled.

3) All of the mat's sensors are recessed about 1" into the wooden panels.

4) Sorry about the slow release of information, but I have a lot going on. You can definately expect very detailed information over summer, and maybe even a kit for producing these?

[Plautus]

[cranium]

[ch]

$260 is a lot for a ddr pad, plus materials.
_________________

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/index.php?module=see&l=uk&code=36e44d4914f14070cc5b3d4c6bcd1042

CStarFlare wrote:

I approve of the direction this thread is going

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch?e=20090310025322668

[latindude88wpg]

[Plautus]

[CNLohr]

I didn't directly mean the load sensors themselves, I more or less ment the parts surrounding them.

I understand that while the element is very robust when used in a very standard way (direct up and down motion with moderate impact).

The problem lies in the fact you have to find a way of suspending a panel up slightly in a heavy spring-like manner. Your panel itself would still need to move, your whole system would rely on many parts that are always in motion and many times high impact pressure.

This means you have an object that is moving at a certain speed, and when you try to slow it down over a VERY small distance, it exerts an incredible force upon what is slowing it down.

I was having a hard time understanding why konami's pads were so rough until I realized what happens when you stomp.

Keep in mind, these numbers are very optimistic on the pad's side. Realistically when you stop, you move very fast, and usually your total weight against the arrow is more than 20 lbs.

When you have a 20 lb object moving toward an flat surface who'se weight is neglegable moving at 3 ft/s, if that surface is to stop the 30 lb object over a distance of 0.5 inches in 0.3 seconds (between the give, your shoe and the surrounding system), it exerts an incredible force:

Total inertia of your leg: 60 lb/ft/s ( 20 lbs * 3 ft/s )

Total force sensor has to accept: 60 lb/ft/s

Total load on sensor: 0.5" = 0.04', 60 lb/ft/s / 0.3 seconds = 200 lb/ft /0.04' = 5,000 lbs in shock.

Under other gaming conditions, this can be even higher. That's why it's so easy to park a car ontop of any dance mat (even the foam ones) and still have them work.

Keep in mind, there is a big difference between static and dynamic pressure.

People think cobaltfluxes are so cool beause a truck can sit on it. They are only designed with extra static strength. This means that they can simply hold a lot of weight.

Red Octane metal mats are not designed with as much static strength, that is why parking a large truck ontop of one would not be a good idea.

With all mats that are capable of holding extreme quantities of weight are also intrinsically designed for very high dynamic stress. Because in DDR, all they have to handle is shock, the stress of 5k lbs does not have to be sustained. The overall stress to the entire system is well below the 5k lbs.

It's just the sensors that have to take the 5k lbs.

Have you ever tried jumping on a bathroom non-digital scale? It sure as heck doesn't read your real weight.

While Load cells are considerably more robust than pressure sensors, if you design your system intelligently with pressure sensors (never allowing the panel to fully press against the pressure sensor) the pressure sensors never experience all of the shock.

Take a look at so many of the home pads that use microswitches. The microswitch mechanism is rated to less than 100 lbs. Because of the design of the system, it can last far longer.

The whole situation is far more complex than just "Lets use heavy load sensors" "that will fix all of our problems."

When you deal with systems that have to have moving parts, the systems get incredibly complex if you expect them to really last well.

That is why my solution for everything was to just not worry about it. When you deal with optics, you are spending miniscule amounts of money where the actual key portion of the system does not care about pressure, weight or shock.

Using load sensors would make for a pretty badass pad, but it would not make any shocking revelation as far as the indestructable pad goes.

In reality, even the optical mats will break down over time in the design I am using. The task to develop an ultimate ddr pad is long from complete.

I think the only possible "indestructable" ddr mat that would never degrade would be a mat with nothing but metal panels firmly attached to a strong base such as plastic, or formed MDF. The player would have to play bearfoot and always have a grounding strap on their arm.

Each of the panels would be very lightly charged and when the user's foot is pushed against the panel, it would electrically trigger a comparator.

Realistically, people are not going to play bearfoot DDR with a grounding strap on their arm.

Let's keep on thinking guys, let's keep on designing and exparementing and not jumping the gun on proclaiming an ultimate dance platform.

Until the day when this super DDR pad is developed I think I'm going to stick with my LevelSix's.

BTW: The actual laser mat did fail approximately a year after it's development. The Lasers eventually did begin to fail due to the shock and the many times I hooked it up to an unregulated power supply.

The 2nd optical DDR mat is not currently in my posession.

[cranium]

I've had experience using load cells in industrial applications. All of which has been at a particular theme park in Florida. I've used them in weighing of very large ojects, measuring cyclic stress on the I-beams of a building and for force feedback of animatronics for more life-like movement.

[Astuce]

Nice idea, nice post btw!

I wonder why those pads arent popular if they suposed to cost less and be as effective.

[Mr_Blasty]

great in theory, but will it really work? Whatever, i'll just contine to search for a way to turn a trampoline into a DDR pad
_________________

10=footer's beaten as of 9/25/04
MAX300=B
MAXX UNLIMITED=D
BAG=A (BAG AA with 1.5 speed mod)
SAKURA=A
Paranoia Survivor=C
Paranoia Survivor MAX=D
The Legend of Max=C

[cmeador]

[k//eternal]

What's the issue with a raised center and raised corners? As long as it's not raised by too much, it should just amount to the way DDR arcade pads have recessed arrows >_>;

Am I missing something?
_________________

do the right thing... trust yourself, and you'll know the way

[shimikiah]

Wow, fancy idea. I don't have a clue about all this technical stuff...but I still think it looks like a great idea.
_________________

I'm way to cool for a sig.

[neomang5]

Im a little scred now, because i am mildly turned on by that pad...
I really wish i was talented enough to make something like that, but i have virtually no knoledge of circuitry. But i know how to solder!
Anyways, you lucky lucky bastard, i wish i had that pad...

[zaphod]

[kamron_1]

understood that this will be in DTX, but will other features from DTX be released to PD, such as the external led lifebar display?
_________________

Click for Captain Jack Memorial Page