Is ITG harder than DDR because of endurance only?

[DAF]

Is it just me or does it seem that ITG is more physically draining than DDR, but not necessarily harder. Songs like Hardcore of the North, Pandemonium, Delerium, July, and a bunch of others have more steps at faster bpms, but they don't require much crossing over or reading abilities. I'm not saying that this is true for all ITG songs (look at Mythology) but it seems this way for most of them. Either way, I'm not trying to put ITG down, especially since i spend LOTS of my hard earned money playing the damn thing. What are your opinions?
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[Synaesthesia]

Any Expert chart that Emirzian made puts that away. I think this pic sums up the "MJ style" quite well.

Link

I agree that most aren't very technical, but just stamina-draining (barring mines and hands for the time being).
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im a lasagna whale

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[J. S. Mill]

Uhh play Oasis.
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[Rancidfish]

The steps for Pandemonium are not only tiring, but harder than anything in DDR. If the only reason why it was hard was due to stamina, I would fail it when I got too tired. Instead, I fail it early on when I still have plenty of stamina, because I simply can't do the steps.

The steps in Determinator and Summer are faster than anything in DDR. I can't pass those because they're just that hard, not because they wear me out. I fail both during the first long, fast run, because I just can't move fast enough to keep my life meter up. I'm not even that tired by the time I've failed.

The steps in Euphoria are more rhythmically complex than anything in DDR. I can pass the song rather easily, but it gives many people a lot of trouble because of the emphasis on turning and 1/32nd note "drills" at 140 BPM.

Disconnected Hyper? Disconnected Mobius? Tell? etc.

Oasis has already been covered, so... yeah. There are so many ways in which which ITG is harder than DDR. It's got them all covered.
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[Synaesthesia]

Rancid, the point of the OP was that the patterns alone don't require much crossing over (like how EE, PE, and others have lots of crossovers). On the average, too, not looking at individual exceptions. Of course, if you look at DDR 10s, you see that everything except PS/M/O has relatively crossover-less patterns, too.
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[Agent J]

I think there are quite a few songs in ITG whose difficulty comes from other sources. Take, for example, Utopia Expert. The first time I played that song on Stepmania, when it got to the part with all the off-beat right arrows, I just went, "Ahhhh WTF?" and tried to flail through it with my fingers and failed. I mainly play on 8s and 9s at best, and I've failed Bloodrush Medium because it throws some sequences at me that I had little to no familiarity with. That's not entirely the case, though. I failed Boogie Down Hard near the end of my session yesterday because I just ran out of stamina about 3/4ths of the way through. So, yes, some songs just have a higher stamina factor, but ITG does throw some new technical aspects into songs to make it harder.

[Marq(uistadorous)]

[Justican]

Sakura Survivor, it look like you played the game lots, but not enough, there are ALOT of songs on ITG that have lots of techincal, and some songs, just like Exotic Ethnic, relie on it.

Have you ever played Hardcore on the north on HARD, Driving force classical and the beggining, they all thrive on cross overs to enhance their difficulty, the beggining itself isnt all that fast and I would of passed it a while ago if it was more straight forward.

I think your principal argument is right though, ITG does have more steps, longer songs and crazy patterns to increase your endurance, but to many people still learning the concept, it just as rich in providing technique and reading abilities.
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[JimTheFly]

It's a combination and variation of everything that's been said, basically.

Yes, there's some songs that are simply more stamina-draining than anything in DDR.
There are some that are faster than anything DDR's thrown at players of yet. I believe the fastest speed in DDR is about 666 arrows/minute with TLOM Heavy, which is 1/8ths at 333, but I could be wrong. Summer Expert has MANY sets of 1/16th notes at 185 bpm, which equates to 740 arrows/minute.
Some are more technical than DDR in various ways, such as being FAR "twistier" in the case of songs like Disconnected Mobius, or having strange timings like Bend Your Mind or Utopia, or involving patterns such as high-speed step-jumps on the same arrow (see: Tell Expert).
Some are just flay out stranger. This is where MJ's doubles insanity comes into play. Stuff like Reactor Doubles Expert and the stepchart linked to above (Disconnected Disco Doubles Expert) are examples of this. They're both 10s, and they both have under 350 steps each. Usually, things like this are pains to play until you get the hang of it, then they're quite fun.
And you even get things like Solina Double Hard, which is twisty AND technical... you COULD double-step it, but if you don't, you find out that it resolves itself.
and there's a number of other things out there to find as well... I recommend Zodiac Doubles Hard and While The Rekkid Spinz Doubles Expert for two other examples of "abnormal" styles of difficulty, for lack of a better word.

IMO, the stepdesign team looked for ways to push the envelope in a number of different directions and they went after all of them.
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[Synaesthesia]

That link had the BPM totally screwed up, though.
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im a lasagna whale

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[J. S. Mill]

Great post Jim.
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[DAF]

Ok. It just seems that a lot of the songs are hard only because of the sheer amount of steps or speed of the steps. But yeah i've played a lot of ITG2. And Oasis is one of my fav songs to do just because it is different.
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Drink up baby, stay up all night
With the things you could do
You won't but you might
The potential you'll be that you'll never see
The promises you'll only make

[figgy20000]

[J. S. Mill]

Soapy Bubble is the worst stepchart ever in any game.
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[squirrel_wrangler[spoink]]

soapy bubble has great steps. they are super fun. especially the end.
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[J. S. Mill]

[ThemsAllTook]

Opinion != fact.

I like Soapy Bubble's expert steps. If someone doesn't like them, I have no problem with that. Why argue over a matter of taste?

[Kyrandian]

Hustle Beach is more complicated than anything on DDR. Seriously.

[DJTyrant]

Hustle Beach is the best step chart I've played in my life.
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[cj iwakura]

I like a few of ITG1's double charts, myself. Especially where they go beyond the single limitations(both Don't Promise Me's actually have EX steps. Double = win). It bugs me when the opposite happens(not being as tough as the single counterparts), but I probably wouldn't be able to pass a true Hardcore Of The North EX Double, so maybe that's for the best. :P
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