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My home built metal DDR pad (Part IV)
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dsl1
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4340. PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: Starting over. Q - which pad is the least loud? Reply with quote

stupidbarber wrote:
snip


I followed stoli's design. The panels creaks a bit but it isn't to loud. Feet/shoes slapping against the panels will be much louder. h
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Rockclmbr6
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4341. PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoops! Sorry bout that. I actually read that post the night before at like 2am, so I must have forgotten about it by the next day or something. laugh.gif Ha, sorry. But thanks for the help anyway.
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Ravenwing
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4342. PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got a quick question for Stoli:

On the last picture on your site about mounting the controller, is the green CAT5 that splices to the black telephone wire soldered to the ground/common? Just wondering 'cause I got some Retros for my own pads, and I'm trying to find the right solder points.

Thanks.
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stoli
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4343. PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ravenwing wrote:
Got a quick question for Stoli:

On the last picture on your site about mounting the controller, is the green CAT5 that splices to the black telephone wire soldered to the ground/common? Just wondering 'cause I got some Retros for my own pads, and I'm trying to find the right solder points.

Thanks.


Yes, the black is soldered to the arrow switch common (not the same as controller ground). The X, O, and all the other buttons (I assume) on the controller also share this common. I used an ohmmeter to find this solder point. It was easier than soldering to one of the common connections on the other side of the circuit board.

The green CAT5 goes out and branches to 6 different locations (the lower sheet metal panel on the X, O, and each of the four arrow switches).

-Stoli
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Aflac
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4344. PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally, today we go to Home Depot to buy the materials for my new to-be-shiny DDR pad! Jeez.

Anyway, what do you most of you use to cut the metal? I know you use tin snips for cutting the corners off of the sheet metal, but what about the more major cuts? Anyway my friend (whose tools i'm borrowing) said that "he doesn't think he has anything to cut metal with." So i was just wondering.
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4345. PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:50 am    Post subject: Liquid Metal. I need your bike. Reply with quote

Aflac wrote:
Finally, today we go to Home Depot to buy the materials for my new to-be-shiny DDR pad! Jeez.

Anyway, what do you most of you use to cut the metal? I know you use tin snips for cutting the corners off of the sheet metal, but what about the more major cuts? Anyway my friend (whose tools i'm borrowing) said that "he doesn't think he has anything to cut metal with." So i was just wondering.


I used tin snips to cut both minor and major cuts myself, but I think that was a bit of a mistake. Despite my best efforts to cut a straight line, the cuts around the six-inch mark to the end (I had a 2'x4' piece of metal) came out pretty ragged. Fortunately, I was able to just put the ragged parts inside the pad and leave the clean cut parts (from the original cut the sheet got) outside. Still, it's not too pleasant when I need to muck around inside the pad.

So, tin snips will work if it's all you've got and you want to get started on the pad pronto (like I did.) My friend suggested getting a Dremel with metal cut blades (unfortunately, *after* I'd already done this and told him about it), so that's one possibility. If you've got access to a table saw, there's something you can try a metal-cut blade with as well.

Remember to use safety glasses and wear long sleeves, gloves and denim jeans when cutting, though, because me friend followed up the Dremel advice with the fact that he'd pushed the Dremel a little too hard, which caused the metal cut blade to shatter into pieces (while going at some hundred RPM) and graze his thigh (he had shorts on.)

Alternatively, if you get your metal at a fabricator, ask them if they can use a cutting machine to give you some square-foot cuts. If you buy the metal there, there's a good chance you can get it cut for free, and if not, it still saves on getting tools you may not have and need after the pad's done. (After the whole metal episode, I got my plexiglass cut at a glass fabricator for $1 a cut. Bit pricey, but I wasn't too sure of my ability to hold a jigsaw steady over a two-foot cut.)
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4346. PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cut the Lexan by scoring it with a razor. I just lined up a straightedge, put a small groove in the material (so the razor would be less likely to jump), removed the straightedge, then scored away. I probably cut 1/2 - 2/3 through the Lexan, then lined the scored edge up against the edge of the workbench, and slowly applied pressure, and bent the pieces off. It worked out just fine for me, and I was scoring/bending lengths of over 3 feet.
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Aflac
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4347. PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh. Stoli, I need some more measurements or help. Should the top border sheet metal thing be the same size as the bottom border sheet metal thing, or should it be 3/4" shorter? And how big should the side border sheet metal be? agh so confused!

Also, when you drilled your holes into the base, was there a set pattern you followed, like one inch from the corner or anything?
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stoli
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4348. PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aflac wrote:
Ahh. Stoli, I need some more measurements or help. Should the top border sheet metal thing be the same size as the bottom border sheet metal thing, or should it be 3/4" shorter? And how big should the side border sheet metal be? agh so confused!


I think you will find all the measurements you are looking for in the very first step of my instructions:

http://home.comcast.net/~stoli16/ddr/base/index.html

The exact width of the borders is not really significant however. As long as the inside dimension (space inside of the borders) is about 33 1/4", it will work. Keep in mind that the narrower the border, the harder it is to bend the sheet metal around. If you increase or decrease the width of a border, make sure you adjust the size of the base accordingly, that way the inside dimension will remain 33 1/4".

Aflac wrote:

Also, when you drilled your holes into the base, was there a set pattern you followed, like one inch from the corner or anything?


Not really. just keep the wire channel in mind since you don't want a screw to short out your electronics. Using a decent wood glue would also be a good idea. I used screws because I wasn't sure of the design and built the pad in a way so that I could totally disassemble it. I realize now that won't be necessary so half the screws and some glue would probably work better.

-Stoli
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stoli
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4349. PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 2:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Liquid Metal. I need your bike. Reply with quote

Heffenfeffer wrote:
... if you get your metal at a fabricator, ask them if they can use a cutting machine to give you some square-foot cuts. If you buy the metal there, there's a good chance you can get it cut for free, and if not, it still saves on getting tools you may not have and need after the pad's done. (After the whole metal episode, I got my plexiglass cut at a glass fabricator for $1 a cut. Bit pricey, but I wasn't too sure of my ability to hold a jigsaw steady over a two-foot cut.)


The fabricator where I bought my sheet metal wanted alot of money for all the cuts. About $75 for the cutting and $25 for the bending I think - which included every piece in my design, which is a lot more complicated than the 13 squares in DHP's. If you can get someone to do it for a reasonable price, DO IT!!!! In the end, I made every cut myself with some Wiss metal snips, and in my opinion, this is by far the biggest hassle of the build. Even worse than the bending I would say.

Ask around, and see if you can find a friend of a friend with a metal break.

-Stoli
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Aflac
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4350. PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stoli wrote:
Aflac wrote:
Ahh. Stoli, I need some more measurements or help. Should the top border sheet metal thing be the same size as the bottom border sheet metal thing, or should it be 3/4" shorter? And how big should the side border sheet metal be? agh so confused!


I think you will find all the measurements you are looking for in the very first step of my instructions:

http://home.comcast.net/~stoli16/ddr/base/index.html

The exact width of the borders is not really significant however. As long as the inside dimension (space inside of the borders) is about 33 1/4", it will work. Keep in mind that the narrower the border, the harder it is to bend the sheet metal around. If you increase or decrease the width of a border, make sure you adjust the size of the base accordingly, that way the inside dimension will remain 33 1/4".

Aflac wrote:

Also, when you drilled your holes into the base, was there a set pattern you followed, like one inch from the corner or anything?


Not really. just keep the wire channel in mind since you don't want a screw to short out your electronics. Using a decent wood glue would also be a good idea. I used screws because I wasn't sure of the design and built the pad in a way so that I could totally disassemble it. I realize now that won't be necessary so half the screws and some glue would probably work better.

-Stoli


sorry, for the measurements I meant "how big should the sheet metal be?" for the borders.

What do you need wood glue for? E19.gif
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stoli
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4351. PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aflac wrote:


sorry, for the measurements I meant "how big should the sheet metal be?" for the borders.

What do you need wood glue for? E19.gif


That depends on the size you made the border. I cut it so that it would extend 1/2" down along the inside edge and the outside edge would wrap around and extend about 1" on the underside of the pad. So, if your border is 3" wide, then the sheet metal would be:

1/2" + 3" + 1 1/2" + 1" = 6"

Here, this might help:

http://home.comcast.net/~stoli16/ddr/images/metal.gif

It is a diagram I created with a CAD program to give to the fabricator to get an estimate on cutting and bending the metal. It is a GIF image with text, so if your browser is set to resize images, make sure it is maximized or set image resize to off - otherwise, you won't be able to read the text.

Keep in mind, this does not address the ends of the top and bottom border pieces, which must be notched and trimmed accordingly. It gets a little tricky where the side border butts against the top and bottom, but if you look at my pics and draw it out with pencil and paper, you should be able to figure it out. The pics on the Borders (Part 1) page should give you an idea as to how to notch the ends of the top and bottom border pieces.

-Stoli

Edit: The wood glue is optional but you could use it instead of all the screws that hold the pieces of plywood together.
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Ravenwing
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4352. PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as cutting the sheet metal goes, I cut my steel flashing with a jigsaw + metal smooth cut blade and using a flat for my cutting surface (wooden platform like you'd see stuff sitting on outside of a grocery store...ideal for cutting a floppy material like sheet metal because the surface is strips of wood with gaps between then, so you can support the jigsaw and still not bite through wood as you cut the metal) Worked like a charm. And yeah, I was actually confused myself at first with the width of the metal borders...ended up having to re-cut another side border 'cause I made it an inch too thin.. riiight.gif Also found that it's much easier making the short bends -after- making the long bends!
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4353. PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

urg... i feel like i'm a disease, feeding off of you guys.
Stoli: drilling the holes from the base to the borders/squares, did you make a pilot hole? If you did, how did you line up the holes in the base to the spot on the border/squares? And is counter-sinking the screw holes necessary? You stated you didn't want the screw head to protrude from the base. Is this just to prevent any sort of snagging or something going wrong with the screw head? thanks.

Oh and i got my sheet metal quote today. The company said (paraphrased) "the stainless steel sheet metal, with the mirror finish, will be $1954." Me:"What size is that again?" Them:"That piece is 48 inches by 48 inches. The other sheet, the stainless steel galvanized sheet, will be $985. The size for that is 24 inches by 48 inches."

^So, i'm guessing thats a load of BS? Or did all of you buy your sheet metal at $150+++ a square foot? biggrin.gif riiight.gif

Edit: oh, and another thing for stoli. For the lucite panels- about the silicone/rubber tubing, does that need to be flexible? My dad brought home some rubber tubing, but the size is 3/8 instead of 1/4". He also brought home some other type of tubing, clear, but hard and more like plastic. This hard tubing was the right size, 1/4", so i was wondering if this was usable for the screw shaft in the lucite.

EDIT EDIT!!: another thing, Stoli. For the Euscheteon pins, can i replace these with regular nails, or is there something special about those pins? Thanks a lot.
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4354. PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I started my new pads today... So far so good. Aluminum Flashing is much easier to work with than sheet metal, tin snips are a snap to use on it. Anyways, what I found best to cut the "old school" sheet metal (compared to the spiffy new flashing) was a skill saw with an abrasive blade. The blade does not have teeth, its a circle made out of, well, an abrasive material riiight.gif . I dont know exactly what it is, but it says that its made for cutting metal on the blade, and it works. However, it SHRINKS (wears away from all the use). You'll need a blade for each pad, but you can cut multiple squares at once (I stacked all my 5 sheets of metal, clamped them, and then cut). Carbide blades work well on lexan/lucite.

Aflac: Smack them. Knock some sense into them.

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4355. PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aflac:

Funny you should mention that step, I just did it today! Yes, yes, yes, make the pilot holes!! All you have to do is drill them where you want them on the base, then just clamp the border down you'll be screwing, flip it all upside down, and drill a little further down into the border through the hole you already made. I used flathead screws, and no countersinking...the wood cracks a smidge if you get the head totally flush with the wood, but it didn't hurt anything, though. Dunno about the pins...haven't permanently attached the flashing to my borders yet, so I guess Stoli can let us both know about their magical properties.

And something tells me they left a decimal place or two out when they gave you that quote...I ditto Surfreak about giving them a good smacking.
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4356. PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:17 am    Post subject: An old currency joke Reply with quote

Ravenwing wrote:
Aflac:
...
And something tells me they left a decimal place or two out when they gave you that quote...I ditto Surfreak about giving them a good smacking.


Don't worry, if you've got a big penny collection you should be able to pay for it easily. I happen to know that 1982 pennies are worth almost $20.00.

(Seriously, I think it's 150 cents, not dollars, a square foot. That sounds about on par with what I paid at Home Depot. Be sure to ask if you can get a discount on getting it cut there if you don't have tools, too!)
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4357. PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a question that may seem completly retarted but I thought I'd try:


Could you not use whatever is inside of a softpad for sensors, etc in a homeade metal one...seems like it'd save alot of time if I worked? Would that be possible or are the sensors in a soft pad just not sensitive enough?


This probably doesn't make any sense E19.gif ...
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4358. PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see why you couldn't, though those sensors are not exactly durable. That's why most people want to build/have a metal pad, to have sensors that don't die on them whilst they play Hardcore of the North Expert. E13.gif
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ohls
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4359. PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heres some straight forward questions:

how much does plexi glass cost? and how do you cut it up?
and it is plexi glass thats best to use, right?

how do you make the foot pads go back up? small springs?

thanks!
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