Pumpers converting to ITG

[cj iwakura]

Figured I'd devise a little something for those of us making the even trickier switch, five~> four arrow.

I've only played a bit of ITG, but I was able to get a good impression of most of its defining characteristics, like its triples/quads, mines, hands, etc.

Well, you're probably already used to the kinds of nasty freezes/triples/quads PIU has had for a while, and ITG's aren't much worse. Hand freezes register nicely on ITG's pads, and the triples/quads can be hit with just feet, even if not as easily on five/ten arrow. As for the mines, EX2's minesweeper mode probably won't help much here, since ITG's are a lot more prolific, but they're easy enough to avoid/predict if you pay attention to the beat and arrows, since the mines are usually well synced to the track's rhythm.

Tempo shifts are extremely prolific, but if you're remotely used to the likes of Solitary 2 and I'll Give You All My Love, that shouldn't be a problem at all in ITG's case, since they're also predictably on beat.

As for the most difficult factor, the 16th/24th+ note runs of death.. well, you're going to need to spin a lot more, that's for sure. Some of the Expert charts require extremely intense stepping, especially Hardcore Of The North's expert, which would be vaguely comparable to IGYAML if it had a tempo stop and 24th notes thrown in with the 16th runs.
(I believe it's also the same BPM, 160ish.)

Lastly, for the Nightmare steppers.. well, fortunately, ITG ExpertDouble isn't fractionally as insane as the Single charts in my opinion, but it'll still give you a run for your money. My Favourite Game Expert, a 9, is around on par with Deja Vu Nightmare, mostly 8ths with a few spurts of 16ths and a slowdown in the middle. Some of the 9 foot hards/mediums, like Pandemonium and Hardcore of the North, are definetly spinfests along the lines of Mr. Larpus' and Winter's Freestyle charts.

As for the high-level 11s-13s, if you can weather the 18-20 NMs, they shouldn't be much trouble at all.. but on single, even passing Dignity and Canon-D might not prepare you for the likes of HotN and Pandemonium, so be prepared.

I usually use 3x on PIU, and that's what I also favored for ITG(2x on some of the really fast ones), and it's not as blazingly fast as it was on DDR, so that's my suggestion.

Oh, and for you freestylers: go for the hiphop. The hard charts are awesome for it. Same with some of the trance/classical/happy hardcore, too. There's potential if you look.

Again, I really didn't get to play all that much of ITG, so any Pumpers out there who've played more of it than me, feel free to throw in any suggestions I didn't think to mention.
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[.hack//*cough*]

I think you pretty much have it covered, except for one minor detail: There are no 13 Expert rated doubles in ITG. Although that will likely change with ITG2 coming out this June.

The best advice I can give is to learn the pad. Of course, I'm doing just the opposite: I'm going from DDR/ITG to Pump, and it's a steeper learning curve for me simply because it's five panels instead of four.

And I also contend that Dignity Crazy/Nightmare is still the hardest thing I've seen on any dance game. Granted, Pandemonium Expert, HCotN Expert, and Euphoria Expert Single could give some of the tougher Crazies a good run for their money, and Pandy Expert and VerTex Expert Double are comparable to some of the more ridiculous Nightmares, but I've seen all those songs played and IMHO Dignity scares the poopy out of me more than anything. I guess I could research this.

But yeah, 4/8 panels vs. 5/10: I'd say Pump's slightly harder based on that fact.
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"It's not God who created humans. It's humans who create God." - Cowboy Bebop Ep. 24 (Brain Scratch)
Atkins is dead. Long live exercise and dance games.

[Rancidfish]

Well, the PiU pad is set up such that it's easier to hit three-panel hits. The "step-JUMP step-JUMP step-JUMP" steps in Dignity crazy, with three-panel hits, aren't too difficult because of that fact. In general, PiU crazy steps don't scare me anywhere near as much as the hard ItG expert steps.

However, yeah, PiU nightmare looks, well, insane.
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"They call me... Brother Mojo."

A newbie's guide to ITG. If you like dance games, check it out!

[foyboy21]

[Mio]

If you have big enough feet and a sensitive arcade pad then you can just put your feet ninja style, and try to put the weight of your feet on all four panels.



I can do it, and I've seen it done many times before.

[foyboy21]

[-SuperZero3 Gold-]

On the hands thing, do note that hands in ITG are MUCH easier, and very much better placed.

On Pump, I never ever ever go for hands because they're usually b'sed in the middle of a bunch of sixteenths and eighths, and too much grief is caused by going for them. I only will hit them if they're: A.The last step of the song, B. The freeze hands in Dignity and IGYAML Cz. That's it. Otherwise, they're just too hard. You must go for them with feet. And Foyboy, I can't really recall any triples where the center arrow isn't involved, although I do think just feet on a quint is silly.

On ITG though, even though the DDR cabinet really isn't the kind of sensitivity needed for hands, I'll still go for them, because that extra two quarter note time to get back up to the bar and hit the oncoming arrows is always there. The hands are much better placed, and you don't ever have them right in the middle of a bunch of confusing runs(thank you stepmakers).
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Memberthingy of team F.H.O.D.

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[Kyrandian]

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[Tsuri]

A real fast slide on a Premiere 2 (what Miss's Story is on) will not work for 5 panels.... on ITG you can hit all 4 panels with a jump if positioned right... so the same thing with quads can be performed on ITG.

[MJEmirzian]

I'd like to hear more about the most difficult nightmare (Pump doubles) charts, and how they compare to what's on DDR or ITG doubles. I would very much appreciate any videos of the toughest nightmare charts, especially performed barless.

I'm hoping the new double expert 13s in ITG2 will give Pump nightmare a run for its money.

[cj iwakura]

[MJEmirzian]

I got my mitts on those charts you named thanks to pumpcore.com vids. I've been gradually moving the most difficult ITG doubles expert charts towards Pump level of difficulty, it's getting there, but apparently not quite there yet. Two things that I don't want to do with ITG doubles that I see in these charts:

1. some of this just looks un-comboable without the bar (long steps and extreme pad movement in the middle of 16th note runs), which doesn't fit with ITG's play style/philosophy
2. the main difficulty in these charts is derived from huge 16th note runs, not other more creative stuff like step jumps, handplants, long steps/difficult choreography, freeze arrows, long jumps, and of course mines (if you want to point out creative difficulty in nightmare charts feel free)

Some other things to note - ITG doubles still costs twice as much as singles in most arcades, despite doubles premium being on by factory default. The general 8 panel skill level is much lower as a result, so I've been ramping up the difficulty gradually. More than a high difficulty level and endless 16th note runs, ITG doubles has new, original, and innovative challenges that haven't been attempted before. Any high end DE chart is going to be that way for a variety of difficulty factors, not just lots of runs. I'd like the ITG doubles charts to follow that principle of fun, creativity, and challenge above (or at least in addition to) long 16th runs that just try to burn the player out.

Comments -

Bee - looks like a high end 13, one part with some very fast pad movement

Canon D - another chart with mostly runs, and some pad movement that looks near-impossible to combo without the bar. I'd say it's a 14 by ITG standards, but not a very creative or 'possible' one

Final Audition Ep 1 - yep.. more runs, except there's a few handplants. another high end 13

Get This Party Started - looks like a 12.. lots of step jumps at one point

[lxv]

I was wondering if doubles on ITG will ever cost the same as singles (kind of like PIU) I don't mind paying more but It'd be nice if I only had to pay for one credit since it's only me playing.

[Plaguefox]

In The Groove is shipped with factory settings that have "Double Premium" turned on. That means that a round of Double play will cost the same as a round of Single play.

Arcade operators have the option to force Double play to require 2 credits, however, and your arcade may have decided to disable Double Premium.

[cj iwakura]

[-SuperZero3 Gold-]

GTPS is the most bullshit I can see.

It deserved to get banned in every way.

MJEmirzian, what you were saying about foot ratings if Pump songs were converted, what would you give Dignity Nm, and for that Matter, Dignity Cz?
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Memberthingy of team F.H.O.D.

Give me a challenge so I know what to play next time I go.

ULTIMATE HIGH SCHOOL SPRING SEASON:
Ooltewah is the UPA 2008 High School State Champion! Yay for doing something before leaving high school.

[.hack//*cough*]

Hey MJE, if you're still interested in Pump stepcharts, here's a pretty good site here:

It's the most complete site for stepcharts that I've seen (thanks cj). Sadly, it doesn't have all the songs (Canon-D isn't on there) but it does have Dignity and quite a few of the tougher ones from Exceed. No vids, though.

There are also some stepcharts at http://www.pumpxtreme.net/ but they are not nearly as complete as the former site.

And I'm curious, too: what would Dignity CZ/NM be rated if it actually were converted to an ITG step pattern? Hearing you talk about 13-foot Expert Doubles for ITG2 scares me. I'm guessing maybe Dignity would have to be a moderate to high-end 13 Expert on both Single and Double.
_________________

"It's not God who created humans. It's humans who create God." - Cowboy Bebop Ep. 24 (Brain Scratch)
Atkins is dead. Long live exercise and dance games.

[MJEmirzian]

Just took a look at Dignity Nightmare - Very fast pad movement on the 16th triples, one evil run, and relentless triple hits.. I would say it's another high end 13. Makes Monolith DE (a 12 at about 200 bpm) look kind of tame in comparison.

The double 13s on ITG2 are considered low-medium end, while these nightmare vids I've seen are more like high end bordering on 14.

[MJEmirzian]

double post