| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
J Dogg
Administrator
Joined: 16 Jan 2002
Location: Sunnyvale, CA |
0.  Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:40 pm Post subject: Konami v Roxor explained |
 |
|
Are you confused about the recent legal matters between Konami and Roxor over In the Groove? Our Legal Analyst, Lost_Sage helps us out with a brief overview of the situation. I hope this sheds some light on what can be a confusing subject for us.
_________________
Last edited by J Dogg on Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
J Dogg
Administrator
Joined: 16 Jan 2002
Location: Sunnyvale, CA |
| 1. Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Please keep any replies to this post about this article, the legal process, and not the merits of the case. We have another thread for that already.
_________________
Last edited by J Dogg on Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
snickers1127â¶â
Trick Member
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Location: Redding/Stockton, CA |
| 2. Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Any idea on a possible timeline for all these events? Is there a limited amount of time that responses/answers/etc. need to be filed in?
Thanx for the legal info! 
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LET ME SHOW YOU THEM
Vivid Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Location: Mountain View/Sunnyvale CA |
| 3. Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for the info Lost_Sage. Perhaps this should be stickied?
_________________
| theficionado wrote: | | Seriously, they should make some sort of spray for you. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cutriss
Staff Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
|
| 4. Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
It's headlined. Doesn't get much stickier than that. 
_________________
Sentient Mode is capable... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lenny (retired)
Trick Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Location: SW = FnG? |
| 5. Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
thanks a lot for the info...
so basically if this trial goes through there will be no itg 2?
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
myuglybunny
Trick Member
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
|
| 6. Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
No, Just not another BoXoR
Aleast I hope not...
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr. A
Trick Member
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Location: INTERNET |
| 7. Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| myuglybunny wrote: | No, Just not another BoXoR
Aleast I hope not... |
Here we go!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
asakura
Trick Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Location: Naperville |
| 8. Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i didnt read all of it cause i got cofused...i always do when it comes to legal stuff, but, is ITG home version still gonna come out? i dont want to be flamed or yelled at or w/e...i just really want to know. and if no one knows yet, ok, just tell me, thanks.
_________________
[quote:fdc56e267f="SakeLoverReturns"]nah raping the bar isn't cheating. If you ask me it's asking for it. Being there behind you looking all nice and firm. It's just begging to be grabbed onto. lmfao  [/quote] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
J Dogg
Administrator
Joined: 16 Jan 2002
Location: Sunnyvale, CA |
| 9. Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| asakura wrote: | | i didnt read all of it cause i got cofused...i always do when it comes to legal stuff, but, is ITG home version still gonna come out? i dont want to be flamed or yelled at or w/e...i just really want to know. and if no one knows yet, ok, just tell me, thanks. |
Don't bother posting if you're not going to bother reading. Warned.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rancidfish
Trick Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Location: Santa Rosa, CA/Santa Cruz, CA |
| 10. Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| houroc' ( a.d.i.d.a.s ! ) wrote: | | so basically if this trial goes through there will be no itg 2? |
In the case of a settlement, there likely will be an ItG2, since Konami and Roxor would want to agree to something mutually beneficial. In the case of a trial, on the other hand, we don't know what will happen, since (as stated by lost_sage) the courts can reward any or all of the compensation that Konami has requested. This could mean anything between just stopping Roxor from selling Boxors, or for them to turn over EVERYTHING related to the project to Konami.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alezay
Trick Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: Looking At The Sky..... |
| 11. Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Rancidfish wrote: | | or for them to turn over EVERYTHING related to the project to Konami. |
I wonder what would become of ITG if that were to happen.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Thomas Hobbes
Trick Member
Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Location: San Francisco // NorCal |
| 12. Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Would that mean that all ITG games in the arcades must be recalled or something?
_________________
"I am about to take my last voyage, a great leap in the dark."
| Pics | Play-Asia | |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JTchinoy
Trick Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Location: My car |
| 13. Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Aren't all of the ITG machines just DDR machines that got modified with the ITG USB port and disc?? So I would guess they would just uninstall the hardware/software and put DDR back into it.
_________________
*~JTchinoy~-*
Ling Xiaoyu > * |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JoKo
Basic Member
Joined: 24 May 2005
Location: Ocean City, MD |
| 14. Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yes all ITG machines are originally DDR machines that were re-labeled and had their boards swapped out and the USB port installed. The pads are untouched and even the insides of the service button area is the same.
Thats how it was at my arcade when we put ITG in. Although we had trouble with the boards blowing up lol.
_________________
I work at an arcade. :-P
Favs games at my job: ITG/DDR/Daytona/VR Tennis (skillful)/Ridgeracer |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cutriss
Staff Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
|
| 15. Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
...sigh...
Good intentions...bad posters...
_________________
Sentient Mode is capable... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VxJasonxV
Maniac Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2002
Location: Castle Rock, CO |
| 16. Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ___chinoystylez wrote: | | Aren't all of the ITG machines just DDR machines that got modified with the ITG USB port and disc?? So I would guess they would just uninstall the hardware/software and put DDR back into it. |
[edit]
Thought you said "installed via the USB port".
Meh.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chilly Cha Cha
Trick Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Location: AlbaNectaTroy, NY |
| 17. Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| snickers1127 wrote: | Any idea on a possible timeline for all these events? Is there a limited amount of time that responses/answers/etc. need to be filed in?
Thanx for the legal info! |
The defendant in Federal Court has 20 days from service of the complaint in which to serve and file an answer to it. FRCP 12(a)(1)
Should Roxor include a counter-claim in its answer, then Konami will have 20 days in which to respond to the counter-claim.
After that the case will likely slow down a great deal. Discovery can be a long and arduous process, especially in an IP lawsuit - the issues involved can be quite technical, and you must remember that you are dealing with a Federal court judge who may or may not even know how to use a computer.
Discovery commonly involves:
Interrogatories - a series of written questions sent from one party to the other to gather written information. Once served, the responding party has 30 days to respond, however, stipulations between the parties extending the time to respond are not uncommon.
Production and Inspection of documents or tangible things - this involves travelling to a designated place and making a physical examination of some "thing". Here, a likely scenario is Konami travelling to Roxor's headquarters, manufacturing place, etc and having an expert witness (computer engineer, design engineer, etc) physically inspect the Machines and boxors, etc. Because this type of disclosure in these cases potentially involves trade secrets, Roxor can make a motion for a protective order to limit exactly what Konami can have access to - the motion can take a while for the Judge to rule on.
Notice to Admit - a piece of paper making several statement asking the opposing party to admit or deny the factual truth of the statement. These are served to discover where the parties' real issues of dispute lie.
Depositions - where the parties each produce witnesses of whom the attorneys for the opposing side get to ask questions. Depositions can be tough to schedule because of conflicting appointments by the attorneys and/or the witnesses and often get postponed. Depositions are usually held late in the discovery process, after Interrogatories, Notices to Admit, Document or item inspection, etc. They can be long question and answer sessions and in a commercial case, a single witness may take several days, and, depending on the persons produced, several witnbesses may be necessary before the party is satisfied that it has obtain the information necessary to its case. Of course, to get extra witnesses (you are generally entitled to a limited number of witnesses unles you stipulate otherwise), a motion may be necessary to compel their appearance, which again can take a court a while to rule on that motion.
Depositions may also be held of non-party witnesses - for example a regional arcade manager, etc. To get their appearance, a party must serve them with a subpoena - and that non-party witness, if they do not want to appear for deposition, can challenge the subpoena - resulting in another potential motion.
Expert disclosure - as noted above, the issues can be quite technical and each side will bneed "experts" to prove their case. In Federal Court, each oparty must make an expert disclosure - disclosing the name and qualifications of their expert(s), the expert opinion about matters in the case, as well as the facts on which teh expert's opinion relies.
After Discovery is completed (which often can take more than a year), each party has the right to make a motion for summary judgment - this motion puts all the facts together and the party making the motion tries to show why, as a matter of law, there is no dispute needing a trial. However, that motion will not be successful if the Judge finds a factual dispute in the case (two witnesses disagree about a point that is pivotal in determing on which side the law rests).
After motions are denied the case is ready for trial - generally, the Federal Courts' trial calendars are backed up by many months, if not years.
Even if a motion for summary judgment is granted to one side or the other, the losing side may appeal - same if a verdict is rendered in trial.
Long sory short - without a settlement being achieved early - from this point (just after initial pleadings) this case could take two or more years (not including appeals). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DancingMewtwo
Trick Member
Joined: 01 Oct 2002
Location: West Mifflin, PA, USA |
| 18. Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
This was a good summary -- given that I was in a class last year about IT and IP law, this is something I can easily save and send to my professor from that course to possibly use as a class example.
I wonder when we'll see "Dance Groove Revolution" (that is, after Konami wins its suit and Roxor has to turn over everything to Konami  )
_________________
I'm the one who provided the fully unlocked DDR Extreme gamesave. There's a link to it HERE. For those of you who were pulling your hair out over Mission 98: You're welcome. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Travissssssssss
Trick Member
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
|
| 19. Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ___chinoystylez wrote: | | Aren't all of the ITG machines just DDR machines that got modified with the ITG USB port and disc?? So I would guess they would just uninstall the hardware/software and put DDR back into it. |
No. The hardware was completely replaced inside the machine. They didn't just put in a new disc, they took out the hardware (think a PC). Then, the inserted Roxor's hardware (aka boxor) and installed the disc on that. I doubt that the case will affect the releases of ITG for PS2 or ITG2, because ITG2 is scheduled to ship this week. Followed closely by ITG for PS2.
Thanks for the outline of the case. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Forums FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Login to check your private messages
Login
