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Trouble in Groove-land
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180. PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://videos.ddrfreak.com/docs/konami_v_roxor/Main_Document.pdf
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181. PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having played both ITG and DDR, I can say that ITG is a nice breath of fresh air from DDR however by no means a replacement. The only thing that interested me were the insane step charts, all of which except Euphoria and pandemonium oni I did with little problem.

I've become more partial to hooking my pad up to StepMania and playing keyboard megapack songs on foot. It takes a REAL man to play Dokudenpa on foot!E7.gif

I like both ITG and DDR, but I can probably safely say that anyone associated with RoXoR games will have a huge mess on their hands if they essentially destroy the American DDR scene by having machines removed.

... if you catch my drift...
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182. PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing I love best about this thread is how it's immediately used by all the "1337" players to start swinging their e-genitals around once again in defense of whether they like ketchup or catsup E15.gif People have every right to like/hate either game, like/hate the music selection in either game, like/hate the steps in either game, etc. No one is "right" in any of those matters; every single one of those points is so subjective as to be completely laughable.

To all Konami haters: Konami's actions speak of business intelligence right now. Period. This was the perfect time to strike.

To all Konami lovers: please respect that other people like ITG and don't want it quashed. The "I told you so" stuff is not going to win you popularity contests.

To everyone who thinks Konami has no right to sue if they haven't made a new arcade game in 2.5 years: wake the hell up. It's still Konami's intellectual property. They have every right to defend it and are taking the means necessary to do so. The law gets to decide who wins.

To everyone who thinks only ITG gives people what they want in a dance game: ITG has catered to the top of the DDR player pyramid, but that's still a small percentage. The jury is still out on what the game's mass appeal will be, and the hopefully still impending ITG PS2 release will finally put that to the test. But remember, there is a reason that Konami has reported great gains through sales of DDR to date in the US and specifically DDR EX US and DDR UM2 last year. There are a lot more people out there that aren't as 1337 as the top 5% of players, and they like the game just fine. Apparantly they've been eating it up; that tells me Konami's DDR formula for the US has been doing them just fine. Konami doesn't have to cater to a small precentage of gaijin who fawn over anything Japanese or jaded videogame players who don't remember how to have fun if they're not proving they can sprint in place faster than everyone else.

So everyone, just realize you can go out there and be happy with whatever the hell you choose in a game that allows you to jump around like a monkey and imagine like you'd actually look cool in a real club.
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Arch0wl IV
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183. PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

devillion wrote:
YES! FINALLY!

Go konami. Stop this bullshit theft that american companies are doing to your product line. Thank god that you are finally defending yourself! I've been waiting for this FOREVER. I'm tired of stupid bullshit knockoffs and stepmania-in-a-cabs being hailed as "better than ddr/bemani". I'm tired of konami not caring about their product line. And i am tired of the abuse that American game distributors/makers are doing to konami.

I hope this opens the floodgates and konami sues the pants off of all the bootleggers, cabmodders, and theives. All of them.

frick bemani-clones, when the real thing will be FAR better than they can ever come to.

biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif


Fuck you, cocksucker. There's tons of bemani-esque games that are better than the "real thing" (my ass, like they really need to imitate it, if anything they're taking it and making it better). Learn that bemani is not the only fucking line of a game, just like street fighter is not the only side scrolling fighter. Who needs Konami's horrible music selection for their games when a company that knows what players want can take it into their own hands and get a much better music selection with better notes/steps/whatever?

Konami, in their legal document, calls ITG an "infringing and inferior ITG game". What a ball-less low blow, it's their fault that they didn't check what players want at all and their step makers were too pussified to ramp up the difficulty, and sucked too much at making them to use challenge mode for what it's actually there for.


Last edited by Arch0wl IV on Wed May 11, 2005 8:34 pm, edited 2 times in total
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184. PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skie wrote:
Congrats to all my pals at DDRFreak for their shout-out in the Court Documents! thumb.gif


laugh.gif laugh.gif

Maybe some of us will be called as witness E4.gif.
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185. PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In The Groove isn't just aimed at the top tier players. ITG1 may seem like it, and some of the easier steps aren't the best in the world, but what sets RoXoR apart is the fact that people complained about it, they listened, and are trying to fix that in ITG2. I'll be happy as long as we keep getting new releases of games. If they're from RoXoR, awesome, if from Konami, I'll play that too.

*edit* lol i'm reading the court document, and under #20 Revolution is spelled Revoltution heh..so basically, Konami is claiming to hold the patent for the game Dance Dance Revoltution, has anyone heard of that?
#26 is saying that Konami's marks aren't being covered up so ITG is advertising both RoXoR and Konami. How is that RoXoR's fault that an arcade doesn't put all the stickers on the machine?

A fully stickered machine I know it isn't the best picture, i'll get one soon.
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Last edited by LET ME SHOW YOU THEM on Wed May 11, 2005 8:50 pm, edited 4 times in total
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CHROMEDOME
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186. PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can someone tell me what those court papers are talking about, they are extremely confusing and too long. What does konami want from roxor?
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187. PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh, that's legal mumbo-jumbo for you. I assume it's tantamount to learning a foreign language. Looking at legal documents like that makes me so thankful I never even entertained the thought of going to law school, lol. Psychological mumbo-jumbo is more my cup of tea E13.gif
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188. PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a burning question:

Would Konami have called poo-poo on Roxor IF Roxor had made ITG in their own cabinets, like they are planning with ITG2?

Also, if you, the DDR lover, want to be heard, let Konami know your thoughts, as well as Roxor!

If you look at this, we won't win if Konami does get their way, so be heard!

-Jon
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189. PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CHROMEDOME wrote:
Can someone tell me what those court papers are talking about, they are extremely confusing and too long. What does konami want from roxor?


money for each boxor kit and for them to sell no more boxors

most of the mumbo jumbo was ass covering (like asking for anything roxor made that has the konami logo on it)
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190. PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I pretty much came back to post the above. It'd be interesting to see someone who actually understands legal documents (HINT THIS PROBABLY MEANS NOT YOU) decypher this and tell us EXACTLY (no guessing) what Konami is upset about, how they can prove it, and what they want done about it.
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191. PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arch0wl IV wrote:
lots of flames


whenever you want to make a point, make sure that you're calmed... take a deep breath, count up to 10... even to 100000000000 if you want... whatever it takes to be cool... it makes your opinion more respectable and to a point, valid

wait for warning points
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192. PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caffy: Rebel with a BoXoR wrote:
Roxor isn't the one telling people to replace ddr with in the groove..it is a conscious decision by an arcade owner to do that...


wow best worded phrase of defense ive heard (since ive been reading all these damn comments lol).

i have to agree on something. yes konami has every right to be homosexual about things and sue roxor. but i personally think that ITG has continued on the legacy of the once awesome DDR. konami didnt answer our plea of gettin more mixes. they were like F YOU WE'RE GONNA BE GAY AND STOP MAKIN DDR. so yeah, i hope roxor gets through this temporary rough spot, and konami, as much as i love em, can go F*CK a moose.

i still play ddr all the time, but anyone who has good taste in techno (which is what ddr has always based its genre around) will love ITG. ITG is more techno/happy hardcore based and I LOVE IT! it feels so much more up-to-date, and not so played out! i dont care if its the same ol same ol way of playing with some modifications. Sh*T happens, and things move on, and i feel R0x0r will have lots of profit in the future, as long as they stay smart and continue to make new mixes!

speaking of which, shouldnt be too hard to make mixes! i mean LOOK at the variety of awesome songs u can put on ITG! u could easily make like 5 mixes in a year if you really wanted to! :-).

so as much as i hate saying konami has the right to sue, even though i really dont know WHAT (hence the lovely quote above :-)), i'll always be pulling for R0x0R!

PS: I WANT MY ITG TOO DAMMIT! i preordered on the 8th and now gamestop said not till 5/16 those bastards *sniffsniff*
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193. PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Char wrote:
I pretty much came back to post the above. It'd be interesting to see someone who actually understands legal documents (HINT THIS PROBABLY MEANS NOT YOU) decypher this and tell us EXACTLY (no guessing) what Konami is upset about, how they can prove it, and what they want done about it.


1. boxor kits
2. most of the stuff was minor complaints such as that arcade operators were not covering up the konami and DDR logos or were ven displaying both the roxor/itg and the konami/ddr stuff next to each other and that this would casue people to confuse ITG with a offical konami product its really easy stuff if you just read the first page where it defines all the stuff in simple english
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194. PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

myuglybunny wrote:

If its so dumb then why are you reading/posting in it? If you dont like it then leave disgust.gif


Get off my forum.
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195. PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After reading those documents, I do not think Roxor will have a chance of winning this case. Konami's points are clear and provable. I remember once going to an arcade with ITG and seeing that only the marquee was changed. None of the decals were added. That means you see an ITG marquee, the ITG game, and the words "Konami" and "Dance Dance Revolution" plastered all over the place together with ITG. Look at any ITG machines pads with stickers and see the words "Dance Dance Revolution." They can sue for things of this nature.

I will say it again, DDR is Konami's game and they do what they want with it within the limits of the law and the intilectual properties they own. Having DDR Extreme in an arcade in America is not illegal if Konami does nothing about it since its their game. If Konami decided to make a bootleg copy of Dancing Stage Fushion and put it in a United States arcade, who is going to sue them for doing so? Themselves? This is why having DDR in this country is not illegal. No one can be sued for anything relating to DDR except if sued by Konami. An artist such as Captain Jack cannot sue for anything related to DDR, just for any possible breaches in song rights contracts they have, which we have and will probably never have total knowledge of. Since Konami made DDR, regardless of where in the world, and own legal rights to it in the USA, no one can infringe on those rights.

I am not saying Roxor did this, or if they did that they did it intentially, but based on the court documents, Konami's points are almost 100% provable.
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196. PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All i can say about the lawsuit is:If konami wins the lawsuit,the game might be cancelled? erm.gif
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197. PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In one of the many, many lines in that document, Konami makes the claim that Roxor specifically writes in its Boxor instructions for the arcade manager to remove the system 573 DDR board and replace it with the Boxor kit. If that really is in writing, that's very not good for Roxor erm.gif
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198. PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Looking at legal documents like that makes me so thankful I never even entertained the thought of going to law school, lol. Psychological mumbo-jumbo is more my cup of tea E13.gif


Hahahaha you got a fucking psychology degree, every person that does that always turns out to be these extremely grandiloquent, "hey I'm smart because I took PSYCHOLOGY" people acting like they know entirely what's going on with a person in every given situation, like they can analyze people right off the bat. When really, they're probably the most annoying people in the world to converse with because they CONSTANTLY flaunt their degrees either directly or indirectly, and more often than not are people you'd rather not want to hang out with. The only time you want to see them is when you're actually there to see them at an office, other than that; no.

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199. PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EnglishBastardizingTerror wrote:
Char wrote:
I pretty much came back to post the above. It'd be interesting to see someone who actually understands legal documents (HINT THIS PROBABLY MEANS NOT YOU) decypher this and tell us EXACTLY (no guessing) what Konami is upset about, how they can prove it, and what they want done about it.


1. boxor kits
2. most of the stuff was minor complaints such as that arcade operators were not covering up the konami and DDR logos or were ven displaying both the roxor/itg and the konami/ddr stuff next to each other and that this would casue people to confuse ITG with a offical konami product its really easy stuff if you just read the first page where it defines all the stuff in simple english

I think they're just using these 'minor complaints' as a loophole to get around the safeguards RoXoR had setup to prevent themselves from getting sued beforehand.
Now that Konami's found a weak point, they're going to claw and tear at it for all its worth.

I'm pulling for the company that actually gives a crap about the gaming community, which means RoXoR. Konami are just being petty.
Infringing on fair competition? Give me a break; Konami just don't want any.
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