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Heffenfeffer
Trick Member
Joined: 22 Apr 2002
Location: Las Cruces, NM |
2700.  Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:00 am Post subject: Re: 11 button pad |
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| tvStatic wrote: | Greetings all.
I've decided to have a go at building a homepad. What I wanted to do, however, was to build a pad that would allow both DDR (dance?) and Pump it up play. So, I've attempted to design an 11 button pad. That is, 4 direction buttons, 4 diagonal buttons, a PUI centre button, and start and back buttons (this is for StepMania on the Xbox). Before I go further, I thought I'd seek out guidance.
1. Should I really be attempting something like this as a first project? 
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Yeesh, it's a tall order. Right now I'm having enough trouble with the electrics in my four-panel pad. But if you feel confident, hey, go ahead. If you haven't already, look at the designs of six panel pads - I think they'll help a bit. I'm kinda concerned about the frame, since in my four-panel platform (a Riptide model) is dependent on the metal frame to hold together, but if folks can make a working six-panel pad that holds up, I think a nine (erm, nine plus two) panel should work OK.
| ksssssssssssssh wrote: | | 2. With 11 buttons, I will need 12 wires. That rules out using CAT 5 cable only. Any suggestions on how I could implement that? |
Looking at your design, it looks like you'll be splitting the wire three ways anyway...why not just go with three pieces of CAT-5? If you build a breakout box, just thread the three together and cover the outside of them with some sheathing.
| White Noise wrote: | | 3. This may be answered in the videos (that I'm still downloading) or somewhere in the 100+ pages of this topic; what stops the buttons from sliding around in the pad? I mean there has to be enough leeway for the buttons to depress, but would that allow the buttons to move around? |
Generally, each panel in my pad is pressed against a 2x4, which is fairly soft and gives a little if necessary. It'll be a tight fit and slide around a little, but not too much.
| Emergency Broadcast System Test wrote: | | 4. Given that in the dance mode you might spend a lot of time on the centre button (for selecting songs, getting your footing, etc), is it likely to wear the button/supports out? |
I don't think it'll be too bad - it's a lot like holding a freeze arrow on other panels. If the whole center thing's a concern, perhaps you can route everything necessary to select a song to the breakout box as well as to the pad and step off the pad to the box between songs.
| Scrambled Porno wrote: | | I'm considering ditching the start and back buttons and put them in a separate breakout box (terter box etc.). That would reduce the number wires needed to the pad, but its still more than CAT 5 cable. |
Perhaps a breakout box would be a good idea - with the size of Start and Select compared with the rest of the pad, it looks like people with poor balance will be falling off a lot when confirming a song. 
Good luck!
_________________
"If something should happen to me, all the world's women will grieve!" - Edgar Rene Figaro
"Your charisma exceeds that of mortal men. Many would lay down their lives for you." - Fall-From-Grace |
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Mukan
Trick Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Location: Avondale AZ |
| 2701. Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:13 am Post subject: |
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Well, with my pad design, (Yes I know, STILL no pictures. Sorry, I'll try to get them today when my sister gets home in about 2 and a half hours), I just used a piece of MDF, which is kinda like wood, I dunno how to explain it.. Anyways, I just got 18 11x11 pieces of Lexan, 2 for each button so I could make a sandwich around the graphic. Then, a piece of sheet metal on the bottom of those sandwhiches, which was attached with contact cement and that works really well. On the MDF for the rest of the contact, I just put screws down in the wood, so when the lexan sandwhich goes down the metal hits the screws and completes the circuit.
I used copper wire around the screws then I soldered them to pieces of Cat5 cable, because the only way I could strip the Cat5 was with an exacto knife, and stripping more than an inch of it was a doggy.
I only have 6 functional buttons on my pad, but 3 more could easily be added, with more wire I suppose, I just wouldn't be able to use my external box for the PCB board with start/select buttons as easy. Basically, once the Cat5 cable in my pad gets to the edge, it's still in it's original casing and the ethernet plug is on the end. So, we got an ethernet jack, and put it in a project box dealy so I can easily detach it and make different kinds of boxes (one for xbox, or pc, or whatever).
Anyways, I know it's a poopy explanation, but I'll try getting pictures later. My pad has virtually no metal, except screws and the sheetmetal on the bottom of the sandwhiches. It's very simple, just time consuming as hell if you don't have a quick way to cut sheetmetal/lexan. |
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riptide
Trick Member
Joined: 14 Aug 2002
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| 2702. Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:53 am Post subject: Re: 11 button pad |
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| tvStatic wrote: | Greetings all.
I've decided to have a go at building a homepad. What I wanted to do, however, was to build a pad that would allow both DDR (dance?) and Pump it up play. So, I've attempted to design an 11 button pad. That is, 4 direction buttons, 4 diagonal buttons, a PUI centre button, and start and back buttons (this is for StepMania on the Xbox). Before I go further, I thought I'd seek out guidance.
1. Should I really be attempting something like this as a first project?
2. With 11 buttons, I will need 12 wires. That rules out using CAT 5 cable only. Any suggestions on how I could implement that?
3. This may be answered in the videos (that I'm still downloading) or somewhere in the 100+ pages of this topic; what stops the buttons from sliding around in the pad? I mean there has to be enough leeway for the buttons to depress, but would that allow the buttons to move around?
4. Given that in the dance mode you might spend a lot of time on the centre button (for selecting songs, getting your footing, etc), is it likely to wear the button/supports out?
I'm considering ditching the start and back buttons and put them in a separate breakout box (terter box etc.). That would reduce the number wires needed to the pad, but its still more than CAT 5 cable.
Pictures of a rough design are attached. They're just screenshots of the design within the CAD program I was using.
http://users.tpg.com.au/adsllplu/tvStatic/mat_base.GIF
http://users.tpg.com.au/adsllplu/tvStatic/mat_supports.GIF
http://users.tpg.com.au/adsllplu/tvStatic/mat_contacts.GIF
http://users.tpg.com.au/adsllplu/tvStatic/mat_buttons.GIF
http://users.tpg.com.au/adsllplu/tvStatic/mat_plates.GIF
http://users.tpg.com.au/adsllplu/tvStatic/mat_wiring.GIF
Any ideas, questions, suggestions, constructive criticism, comments welcome.
Cheers. |
1. It depends on how good you are with your hands and with designing. From the look of the images you made, I would say you're probably ok with it.
2. You don't have to have the outer shielding on the individual wires, and you don't have to have unique colors for every wire... so you can cut several lengths of cat5 or phone wire and use the individual wires from them.
3. Vertically, the movement can be adjusted in my design(use the web page for this part) because the contact points are lifted by washers. If you need more or less room, take out or add washers.
4. If you're using my design, then I really doubt they would wear out in any short amount of time... it'd take a while. By then you either wouldn't mind replacing it or you wouldn't be playing DDR anymore.
| Heffenfeffer wrote: | | I'm kinda concerned about the frame, since in my four-panel platform (a Riptide model) is dependent on the metal frame to hold together, but if folks can make a working six-panel pad that holds up, I think a nine (erm, nine plus two) panel should work OK. |
You may have built your pad based on my older design. My current design has a piece of plywood covering the bottom of the pad. For pads with more than 4 arrows/less than 4 solid panels, that backing will hold the base together. I would have a concern for the portability of the pad, though. With all of the panels being arrows, it will be even harder to find a spot to grab the pad and lift it. Also, be careful because the acrylic panels can be sharp after they're cut. You'll have more of those edges to worry about. It's no fun getting cut by an acrylic edge.
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Heffenfeffer
Trick Member
Joined: 22 Apr 2002
Location: Las Cruces, NM |
| 2703. Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:59 am Post subject: Re: 11 button pad |
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| riptide wrote: |
You may have built your pad based on my older design. My current design has a piece of plywood covering the bottom of the pad. For pads with more than 4 arrows/less than 4 solid panels, that backing will hold the base together. I would have a concern for the portability of the pad, though. With all of the panels being arrows, it will be even harder to find a spot to grab the pad and lift it. Also, be careful because the acrylic panels can be sharp after they're cut. You'll have more of those edges to worry about. It's no fun getting cut by an acrylic edge. |
The top part of the pad is what I was worried about holding together, yeah. Sorry, should have worded that a bit clearer. I'm using the newer design with the plywood base.
Perhaps for portability purposes you could put a handle on the side of the pad? (Not the left or right side, though, that may mess up doubles.) Also, to prevent horrible acrylic cuts as well as get the corners to fit under the brackets, I sanded down the edges with a finishing sander and fairly coarse (I think 80-grit) sandpaper. Nice smooth edges!
_________________
"If something should happen to me, all the world's women will grieve!" - Edgar Rene Figaro
"Your charisma exceeds that of mortal men. Many would lay down their lives for you." - Fall-From-Grace |
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HitokiriX
Trick Member
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Location: Berwyn, PA |
| 2704. Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:44 am Post subject: |
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Hey a question for those of you making 6 panel pads:
what buttons are u using for the diagonal panels? i think RO pads and all other manufactured pads have start and select but would it be possible to have start, select, and triangle? the triangle would be for cancelling selections. |
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Mukan
Trick Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Location: Avondale AZ |
| 2705. Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:51 am Post subject: |
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My pad's buttons are laid out like so:
nothing -Up Arrow -nothing
Left Arrow -nothing -Rightarrow
XButton -DownArrow -Obutton
and on the control box I have start and select. Dont know if that helped or if that was what you were looking for.
EDIT: Oh Em Jee Pictures.
Picture 1. Pretty crappy picture of the contact from a distance (me standing up) IF you look close at the top you can see Fable
Contact Design up Close. That's both wires right there, ground and.. "active" I guess it's called. The ground wire goes all around to all 6 panels that do anything. That'll work right?
Picture 3, of the pad itself
I'll get pictures of my control box later, once it's reassembled and (hopefully) working.
Yes, I realize it's not real flashy, or even straight. I did kind of work in a hurry, and I wasn't going for looks in the first place. Just something nice and playable. |
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HitokiriX
Trick Member
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Location: Berwyn, PA |
| 2706. Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Mukan wrote: | My pad's buttons are laid out like so:
nothing -Up Arrow -nothing
Left Arrow -nothing -Rightarrow
XButton -DownArrow -Obutton
and on the control box I have start and select. Dont know if that helped or if that was what you were looking for.
EDIT: Oh Em Jee Pictures.
Picture 1. Pretty crappy picture of the contact from a distance (me standing up) IF you look close at the top you can see Fable
Contact Design up Close. That's both wires right there, ground and.. "active" I guess it's called. The ground wire goes all around to all 6 panels that do anything. That'll work right?
Picture 3, of the pad itself
I'll get pictures of my control box later, once it's reassembled and (hopefully) working.
Yes, I realize it's not real flashy, or even straight. I did kind of work in a hurry, and I wasn't going for looks in the first place. Just something nice and playable. |
ok....now i see. ur pictures do look different from what u explained it was like. u said u didn't have any upper diagonal arrows but from your pictures it looks like u do have upper diagonal arrows that are placed in your pad. 
it doesn't matter. just an observation. what i really want to ask is the importance of the symbol buttons (X, O, square, triangle). do they really have the much of an effect on the game? like would i not be able to do something without one of them? |
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Mukan
Trick Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Location: Avondale AZ |
| 2707. Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Oh yeah, forgot to mention, my diagonal arrows are just cosmetic, they aren't actually wired up to anything Not sure why I did that..
The X and O buttons are there so I can select songs and stuff without having to use a controller.. |
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moonmen0
Trick Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2004
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| 2708. Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:35 pm Post subject: kick buttocks arrows |
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Mukan
i really like those arrow graphics, where did you find them, or if they are custom could i get the file.
Thanks
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WHAT WAS I THINKING WHEN I READ 100+ PAGES OF POSTS? |
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Mukan
Trick Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Location: Avondale AZ |
| 2709. Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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I download http://www.fithlan.com/ddr/pads.html the Arrow Template zip file, provided by Sinistar.
Then I opened it up in photoshop, and put them together. The green background is just a gradient I made, light green inside, dark green outside, radial gradient. Then I went to Kinko's and printed them out. |
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tvStatic
Basic Member
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Location: Victoria, Australia |
| 2710. Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks a heap for your responses. I'm a little more confident now.
If I did decide to remove the start and back buttons, what would be a clean way to route the wires into the pad? All of the outside panels are buttons so there would not be much room to move, and I'd like to have some sort of mechanism to prevent the wires being accidently torn out. Mukan: I see you would have had to deal with this problem, but I can't see in your pictures how you solved it.
Handles will definitely be something to think about.
I think I'll finalise my design and get the materials on saturday week. I'll be sure to post my progress or vent my spleen when something undoubtedly goes wrong. 
Heffenfeffer: your quotes tickled me |
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Ulala321
Trick Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
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| 2711. Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Mukan wrote: | I download http://www.fithlan.com/ddr/pads.html the Arrow Template zip file, provided by Sinistar.
Then I opened it up in photoshop, and put them together. The green background is just a gradient I made, light green inside, dark green outside, radial gradient. Then I went to Kinko's and printed them out. |
How did you mount your "show me your moves" picture to the middle? Did you put lucite/plexiglass over it? Very cool looking design by the way. Also, how does one open the .psd template file if he doesn't have Photoshop. Thanks!
Last edited by Ulala321 on Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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Happyfeet
Basic Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2004
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| 2712. Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Hi! I'm REALLY new to DDR...I've only had the game for about a month or so, but it was long enough to realize the foam pads are junk. I'd love to build my own and have gotten a lot of good ideas from here, but I have an XBox. I may buy a PS2 in the future, so I'd like to make my pad adaptable to both consoles. A couple of people have touched on wiring the pad for one console or the other and then purchasing a control box so it's compatible with both, but there hasn't been a whole lot of follow up and some questions haven't been answered at all. Has anybody done that yet or had any ideas of how to make a home pad work with both systems? THANKS! |
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Mukan
Trick Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Location: Avondale AZ |
| 2713. Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Ulala321 wrote: | | Mukan wrote: | I download http://www.fithlan.com/ddr/pads.html the Arrow Template zip file, provided by Sinistar.
Then I opened it up in photoshop, and put them together. The green background is just a gradient I made, light green inside, dark green outside, radial gradient. Then I went to Kinko's and printed them out. |
How did you mount your "show me your moves" picture to the middle? Did you put lucite/plexiglass over it? Very cool looking design by the way. Also, how does one open the .psd template file if he doesn't have Photoshop. Thanks! |
Yes, that's lexan. All 9 panels have a layer of lexan, then the picture, then another piece of lexan.
Thanks 
I'm not sure, really, but since it's really the only file format that supports layers, I don't think it can be another format. Maybe you can ask around and see if there is a program that supports .psds.
| Happyfeet wrote: | | Hi! I'm REALLY new to DDR...I've only had the game for about a month or so, but it was long enough to realize the foam pads are junk. I'd love to build my own and have gotten a lot of good ideas from here, but I have an XBox. I may buy a PS2 in the future, so I'd like to make my pad adaptable to both consoles. A couple of people have touched on wiring the pad for one console or the other and then purchasing a control box so it's compatible with both, but there hasn't been a whole lot of follow up and some questions haven't been answered at all. Has anybody done that yet or had any ideas of how to make a home pad work with both systems? THANKS! |
Well, the way I designed my pad, I can make a control box for both ps2 and xbox. I'll get pics as soon as I can.
Wow, lots of pics to post up. |
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Mukan
Trick Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Location: Avondale AZ |
| 2714. Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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This is how my wires are laid out. The knot is in a little groove that we filled with contact cement, so if that wire gets pulled on, it won't totally tear everything apart. The wires just go to the middle panel, which is where they branch off to the areas where they are needed.
This is how my control box is designed. See the cat5 cable plugging into the jack? All I have to do to make an xbox one is make another box, stick a cat5 jack on it, and bam. I can easily switch between consoles/pc that way. I plan on making an xbox and a pc one.. if i ever find someone/something to help me solder this damned ps2 one. If worse comes to worse I'll just wait another week and a half until I go back to my dad's, soldering goes really fast when he's helping me. I might pick up a pair of helping hands from RadioShack, but I think my dad has some, so I might just get them from him.
And yes, that is the ps2 controller's pcb hanging out the bottom. It's nowhere NEAR finished yet. |
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tolookah
Trick Member
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: The People's Republic of Wesdives. |
| 2715. Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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happyfeet: check my profile, theres a link with instructions on using the beatpad pro for the controller (with pics)... the pro can connect to both xbox and ps/ps2, I use it, and it works fine for both ^^
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Aim: Tolookah
MSN: Tolookah
XBox: Tolookah
DDRPad Soldering and electrical Help: http://www.tolookah.net/DDR/ As hooded_paladin put it: "Currently, help for Beatpad Pro, official Sony Playstation Controller and ANY controller unless you are extremely stupid or lazy." |
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tvStatic
Basic Member
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Location: Victoria, Australia |
| 2716. Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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Tolookah: is it likely that 3rd party Xbox controllers will provide a better contact point for the buttons than the official controller?
We can only get one type of dance mat here (in Australia) because none of the dancing games have been released yet. And if I buy the dance mat I won't want to disect it! We can get the e-pad controller, Logitech Thunderpad, and the Powerwave controller. I'm wondering if any of these will provide easier contact points. |
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MaxXSakura
Trick Member
Joined: 30 Apr 2004
Location: Arizona |
| 2717. Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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how do u clean the sensors of a metal pad
i got some brillo pads already. Do I wet the pads or keep them dry and which side do i use? |
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neueziel
Basic Member
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
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| 2718. Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Hi I was wondering if I can use .25 inch plexiglass because I can't find any .22 inch plexglass at lowes.
Thanks |
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darkwalk
Basic Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2004
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| 2719. Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Hi: I want to build a homepad, but I want to ask a few questions before I start one. I searched for my answers in this forum and read both the stepmania and homepad website, but I couldn't find it (or its vague), so if anyone here can help me out, I would really appreciate it.
1. Both homepad and rip tide's design incorporate a psx controller. Can I use an xbox controller instead (cus i have an xbox)?
2. I want to also use it on my computer for stepmania also, is there something to convert to regular usb connection? The closest converter is the game elements (listed on stepmania's website). It has psx -> xbox -> gc outputs though. Or psx to usb converter, but it doesn't include xbox connection
3. Does anyone know the details of xbox or psx usb interface? Maybe I can just convert the interfaces and signals myself.
Thanks in advace!
~Darkwalk~ |
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