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J. S. Mill
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Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Location: New York, New York |
20.  Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:22 am Post subject: |
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I was utterly stunned when I heard Maximizer. I was even more stunned when I saw the stepchart. Dear Lord.
1) Maximizer is an absolutely horrible song - I think it's probably the worst remix of a Max like song I've ever heard, and this is coming from someone who put's MaxX Unlimited in his top five.
2) The step charts are in the stone age - more on this below.
3) No ten footer should be easier then MAX 300. Paranoia Survivor is right on the cusp. Legend of Max and PSM heavy are solid tens. PSMo and MaxX are hard tens. Sakura and Bag don't deserve to be ten footers, Burning Heat is harder then both of them by alot. The "boss" steps (stupid name) on Maximizer aren't ten foot worthy either.
4) The worst thing of all - In The Groove produces stepcharts like July for it's fast songs, and original stepcharts like Queen of Light and Oasis. AT THE EXACT SAME TIME Konami releases THIS!?!?! Wow. Award winning. DDR Extreme US what a great game.
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Hwoarang137
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Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Location: Escondido, CA |
| 21. Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| figgy20000 wrote: | Genom Screams is a 10. It isn't way fast, it isn't way slow, it doesn't have much Stread. not enough Voltorb. Not enough anything.
What is it? a god damn hard doubles step pattern! !@#$ this song! We need more stuff like this for doubles that has patterns that are slow paced and can be done without double stepping but insanely hard to do like Genom Screams  . Plus Genom needed harder spin arounds during those freeze arrows . |
Genom was just a 10 on Doubles, and I rank it in with Sakura. Granted, the Jump-Gallop-Gallop-Jump patterns were incredibly hard (the first few times, at least), the rest of the song has nothing to it. At all. I agree, we need more tens that are tens for technique rather than speed. And those freeze arrows... man, I wished I was spinning myself in circles on one foot during those things.
| SPF5.Kiba wrote: | I was utterly stunned when I heard Maximizer. I was even more stunned when I saw the stepchart. Dear Lord.
1) Maximizer is an absolutely horrible song - I think it's probably the worst remix of a Max like song I've ever heard, and this is coming from someone who put's MaxX Unlimited in his top five. |
For one thing, it's NOT a remix of a Max like song at all. I love all four of the Maxes (yes, I counted Max. (period)), but they at least sound remotely like each other. Maximizer is only a Max because Konami said so... it's not a remix of Max 300 like the others were.
| SPF5.Kiba wrote: | | No ten footer should be easier then MAX 300. Paranoia Survivor is right on the cusp. Legend of Max and PSM heavy are solid tens. PSMo and MaxX are hard tens. Sakura and Bag don't deserve to be ten footers, Burning Heat is harder then both of them by alot. The "boss" steps (stupid name) on Maximizer aren't ten foot worthy either. |
I agree with three things in that statement: You designations of LoM and PSMH as hard and PSMO and MaxX as really hard, saying that Burning Heat is harder than Sakura and Bag, and yes, "Boss" step is a really stupid name. But I've been over my argument for the weak 10s a thousand times- they have that aspect of extremity that sets them apart. When you really take a critical look at it, Sakura is a long 8th note run at 150BPM with some occasional 16th notes thrown in. But because it runs ar 300BPM, not only are you stuck on 2X arrows (which for some is a nightmare to read) but the timing window was sliced in half. Everything is effectively moved down a space, Greats becoming Goods, Perfects becoming Greats, and a Marvelous (or just a white flash in regular Game Mode) is the criteria for a Perfect. That makes it that much more difficult. Yes, the step pattern for Sakura doesn't deserve to be a 10, but the handicaps they place on top of it set it above the rest.
As for Bag... well, that loses some of its fire because all you have to do is crank up the arrows to something as obscene as 5X and suddenly it's a chaos-heavy 9 foot. But regardless of the arrows, the colors are quite messed up. It's a strong excersize in Visual PA (unless you use 3X or 5X) even if you do use Solo, since the colors come in two arrows at once. It takes more practice than usual to figure that out. Although you may say that hardly qualifies a song as a 10 footer, it has the same sort of odd handicap that Sakura does, just one aspect is easily avoided and the other can mbe ignored with a little practice.
| SPF5.Kiba wrote: | | 4) The worst thing of all - In The Groove produces stepcharts like July for it's fast songs, and original stepcharts like Queen of Light and Oasis. AT THE EXACT SAME TIME Konami releases THIS!?!?! Wow. Award winning. DDR Extreme US what a great game. |
This ain't ITG. In all honesty, I'm disappointed that I spent $50 and ended up with a noob mix. Extreme US blows. But ITG is known for its mass quantity of insane steps, while DDR is usually more tame and more diverse. Now, with that said, not only would I like to see a hardcore "DDR Death Mix" come out, packing all the 9s and 10s and some technical 8s, a few new 10s and 9s, Oni and Nonstop Mode, and no stupid party games, beginner mode, or lesson mode. And while you're at it... where do you go to play ITG? We're in the sam general area, I know that much...
And totally off topic... I'm really, really, REALLY trying to get some pictures for you... but I haven't been able to measure up to my standards at the arcade recently.
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J. S. Mill
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Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Location: New York, New York |
| 22. Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:20 am Post subject: |
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I play In the Groove at Ray's Game Centre in La Jolla which is the only place in San Diego to have it. Click on the banner in my signature to go to ITGFreak SoCal which has a thread for Ray's.
When you speed up a song you don't cut the timing windows in half. DDR uses a formula that decreases the windows as the song goes down. Otherwise it would be absolutely trivial to AAAA something like Be in My Paradise.
If I can get 20 greats on MAX 300, then something of equal difficulty at 100 BPM I should get 10 on. Surely Secret Rendesvouz isn't as hard as MAX 300. But seeing as how that is <125 BPM, I should AAA it trivially by your reasoning. I don't.
The perfect window on Sakura is no easier or harder than any other song of any speed that is synced as well as Sakura. Sakura itself is far easier then Bag, and I doubt I would put it in even the top ten hardest songs. Burning Heat, Gradiusic Cyber, Across the Nightmare challenge (a harder stepchart at the same speed) and Orion.78 Civilization are all harder then Sakura. Sakura isn't even a hard nine.
Bag IS a hard nine. Not so much because it's actually hard but because the software in DDR can't properly express the way they wanted the song. The massive offsync makes it a challenging nine, like those four above. But it isn't a ten - not by a longshot.
The point about the In The Groove comment was not so much that the steps are too easy, but they show no increase in ingenuity over the last mix. Nothing new at all. And they're doing this, this huge company, at the same time a few guys make a game with stepcharts lightyears ahead. The point is they could have worked harder to at least make an interesting and original stepchart.
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Dance
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Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Location: Louisville, KY |
| 23. Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Is there any way AT ALL to get maximizer boss steps on 1.5? Preferebly not on mission mode?
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Hwoarang137
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Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Location: Escondido, CA |
| 24. Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Dance wrote: | | Is there any way AT ALL to get maximizer boss steps on 1.5? Preferebly not on mission mode? |
No.
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xBlah
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Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Location: Fridley, MN |
| 25. Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Hwoarang137 wrote: | | Dance wrote: | | Is there any way AT ALL to get maximizer boss steps on 1.5? Preferebly not on mission mode? |
No. |
Yes. Make an edit.
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Nightime
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Joined: 28 Jan 2002
Location: anywhere else |
| 26. Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Dance wrote: | | Is there any way AT ALL to get maximizer boss steps on 1.5? Preferebly not on mission mode? |
Yes, d/l the Simfile (see Simfiles section).  |
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Hwoarang137
Trick Member
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Location: Escondido, CA |
| 27. Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| xBlah wrote: | | Hwoarang137 wrote: | | Dance wrote: | | Is there any way AT ALL to get maximizer boss steps on 1.5? Preferebly not on mission mode? |
No. |
Yes. Make an edit. |
Meh. Didn't think of that one.
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Ah, Hwoarang... the delinquent-redheaded-AWOL-white Korean who likes to wear motorcycle goggles on his forehead.
Gotta love him. |
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OniCourseMusha
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Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Location: San Furanshisuko |
| 28. Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:48 am Post subject: |
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Maximizer=Max song=Konami said so and made them=TOO EASY!?
Just like Dynamite Rave for example
Dynamite Rave Down Sota=Konami made them=TOO EASY!?
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Liquid Zero
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Joined: 11 Apr 2003
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| 29. Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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Hell, I love the song. I think the guy who made that quote in Hworang's first post knew what he was talking about. Definately a type of song old-school players would like.
For the record, I think it's worthy of a MAX song. Yeah, it doesn't sound as obviously like a MAX as the counterparts, but I think the composition is similar until the last 1/4 of the song.
Anyways, I haven't played the steps yet. It really goes up to 760? Pretty intense. Geez, I think being MAX has fallen more on the criteria of raising the bar of a DDR element (in this case, BPM), rather than being a respective remix-sounding song of MAX 300. I'd find that agreeable, hence the name "Max", obviously implied to relate to "Maximum".
In all honesty, I'm glad the MAX series isn't a bunch of near identical remixes like those PARANOiAs. -_- |
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Yeehaw McKickass
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Joined: 06 Oct 2002
Location: Chicago Area |
| 30. Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| SPF5.Kiba wrote: |
The point about the In The Groove comment was not so much that the steps are too easy, but they show no increase in ingenuity over the last mix. Nothing new at all. And they're doing this, this huge company, at the same time a few guys make a game with stepcharts lightyears ahead. The point is they could have worked harder to at least make an interesting and original stepchart. |
Let me pose these statements to you
1) About your "nothing new at all" comment: KCET, I'm guessing, looked at it with the thought "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
2) The reason the ITG guys had to make step charts "lightyears" ahead of Konami is that that they're up against Konami.
Think about it this way, you have a game similar to Metal Gear Solid 3, only much harder (and in some respects better). We'll call your game "super sneak mission".
Now we take the average yutz and put "Super Sneak Mission" by you and your upstart group right next to Konami's "Metal Gear Solid 3". Now without PLAYING either of those two games, who do you think your average person with some knowledge of games is going to pick?
That's why you'd have to make Super Sneak Mission WAY beyond MGS3. And get insane amounts of press to even compete.
The same concept applies to DDR and ITG. People KNOW what DDR and who makes it. It's not the same for ITG, it's gotten very little press and isn't a mainstream name.
Actually as I was typing this up, my friend (an occasional, casual ddr player) asked me "What the hell is ITG?"
See my point?
As for Maximizer: I find it to be a fun song with fun steps (both heavy and mission 100). It could be worse, they could have given us "Let Them Move" or "Have You Never Been Mellow".
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diddrstrait
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Joined: 01 Jan 2004
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| 31. Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Liquid Zero wrote: | | It really goes up to 760? Pretty intense. |
the song is 190 bpm. it has some 16th notes, which means it has faster steps than any other DDR song. konami has in the past always been very careful about 16th notes and they usually don't include non-gallop 16ths in songs over 170 (I believe maximizer is the first to break their rule). So in a more historical sense, maximizer is significant to the progression of DDR in a similar way that max 300 was significant. maybe in the future we'll see songs continue this trend of high speed 16ths. who knows. I can appreciate the significance of the song though. |
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Liquid Zero
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Joined: 11 Apr 2003
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| 32. Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Syncognition wrote: | | Liquid Zero wrote: | | It really goes up to 760? Pretty intense. |
the song is 190 bpm. it has some 16th notes, which means it has faster steps than any other DDR song. konami has in the past always been very careful about 16th notes and they usually don't include non-gallop 16ths in songs over 170 (I believe maximizer is the first to break their rule). So in a more historical sense, maximizer is significant to the progression of DDR in a similar way that max 300 was significant. maybe in the future we'll see songs continue this trend of high speed 16ths. who knows. I can appreciate the significance of the song though. |
Oh. Geez, a much different scenario. Hmm, still significant, yeah. |
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[sync]
Trick Member
Joined: 18 May 2004
Location: where am i again? |
| 33. Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Syncognition wrote: | | Liquid Zero wrote: | | It really goes up to 760? Pretty intense. |
the song is 190 bpm. it has some 16th notes, which means it has faster steps than any other DDR song. konami has in the past always been very careful about 16th notes and they usually don't include non-gallop 16ths in songs over 170 (I believe maximizer is the first to break their rule). So in a more historical sense, maximizer is significant to the progression of DDR in a similar way that max 300 was significant. maybe in the future we'll see songs continue this trend of high speed 16ths. who knows. I can appreciate the significance of the song though. |
come to think of it...yeah that makes good sense...its a song that makes history just like MAX300 did...we may get a harder MAX in the next home version since KCET did say they were "starting over"
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Ebisumaru
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Joined: 06 Jul 2003
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| 34. Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeehaw McKickass wrote: | | As for Maximizer: I find it to be a fun song with fun steps (both heavy and mission 100). It could be worse, they could have given us "Let Them Move" or "Have You Never Been Mellow". |
Have You Never Been Mellow is an amazing song. |
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DDRguyKAOS
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Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Location: Next up |
| 35. Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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what a dissapointment...
*shakes head*
sigh... they just couldn't make mission 100 to pass Maximizer on a challenge difficulty 9_9
oh well ill just go play go west or ymca for a while
(im so gonna get a jap ps2 now)
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EndlessWaltz
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Joined: 26 Dec 2003
Location: !!!BAYONNE!!! |
| 36. Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:47 am Post subject: |
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whats your problem go west is amazing  |
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Ryudori
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Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Location: New Jersey |
| 37. Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Maximizer is a great song but should have been much harder. Come on, if I can sight-read it with a B, then you all know it is way too easy.  The sound is good though...all the Max songs sound virtually the same so having a little change is good.
[EDIT] Made some edit data for Maximizer after a couple of my friends complained about how easy it was...They stopped complaining and I'm wondering if I'll ever get my memory card back.
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Last edited by Ryudori on Mon Oct 11, 2004 3:30 am, edited 1 time in total |
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DDRguyKAOS
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Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Location: Next up |
| 38. Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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However, I love the actual music in Maximizer. I can't wait to make some edits for it... but first I'll make one for the boss steps. I just thought that the boss steps should've been a challenge rating (i.e. PSMO)
Well.. I think that any TRUE max will always be released on an actual machine. Maximizer and Max. both seem unconventional compared to the other 3, especialy that the bpm stop isn't the classic gradual freeze stop.
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ROB.(PERIOD)
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Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Location: Las Vegas |
| 39. Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 1:21 am Post subject: |
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about all the talk about maximizer having the fastest steps in the game you are all forgetting max.(period) which is the fastest song in all of ddr nothing comes close to it yea maximizers jackhammers are fast but not 600 bpm fast for about almost 30 sec.....
but dont get me wrong i do like the song but it dont think it is a max at all and if it is then it is the baby of the max family but overall it is a good song but i dont think its that great.....
and just re reading abit maximizer does not hit 760 where did you get that from just because it has 16th steps the bpm NEVER changes it is just a jackhammer thats like saying if paranoia rebirth had a part with 16th steps it would hit 760........so nope i dont think so |
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