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Smash_Brother
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Joined: 15 Jul 2003
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100.  Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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We're going to try to go with adjustable tension on the buttons, meaning that there will be screws on the bottom which can be tightened or loosened to suit your tastes.
We did this for three reasons. First, because it allows the customer to set their own preference for sensitivity. Second, because I was getting sick of stacking my weights on a DDR arcade pad button in a somewhat humorous attempt to get a useful measurement. Third, even if I had determined the exact threshold of one pad, there's no guarantee that each DDR machine wouldn't be unique due to varying degrees of use, making the search for the threshold itself an exercise in futility.
My engineer is building one of the buttons for us to have a look at. I'm not sure when it will be here, but progress is being made.
-SB
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Tarnaxx
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Joined: 20 Aug 2003
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| 101. Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 11:33 am Post subject: |
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What material will you be using to sandwich the arrow graphics with? I have heard that polycarbonate and lucite are fairly good, but that super-lucite is the best for this kind of project, which, as you said, demands that it should be durable, and, being supposedly 1000x the strength of glass, would be the material of choice.
Also, would it be possible to make a pad seperator with lights with 5 shades from red to yellow indicating what their health bar is at for playing in the dark?(see pictures) and if they are on fire, have all of the lights flashing in a row dynamically? (red, dark orange, orange, light orange, yellow) but i dont know if you can draw the kind of information necessary from the game to do this. and i understand that it would take an outside power supply seperate from the PS2,which shouldn't be a problem for a TV power strip.
http://www.geocities.com/psuroolz19/ddrpad1.bmp
http://www.geocities.com/psuroolz19/ddrpad2.bmp
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Smash_Brother
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Joined: 15 Jul 2003
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| 102. Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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It's either going to be a thick lucite or lexan. I'm not entirely sure as to what the final design will look like and I won't be until my engineer ships me a completed button. It's all more or less in his head as to how the thing will come together, so I'm waiting to see myself.
I don't believe that lights will be a possibility at all, firstly because they will require an additional power supply and secondly because they'll raise the cost of the pad dramatically.
I also don't know if the game sends that sort of data to the controller. That'd be a question for Konami themselves, but at the very least it would require a whole new controller board to be designed which would cost a lot more $$$. We're trying to keep costs as low as possible here in order to meet the price point. If we can't do that, this whole thing will be a wash.
-SB
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SuperRob
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Joined: 12 Aug 2003
Location: Bothell, WA |
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ChibiShin
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Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: Ypsi or Toledo |
| 104. Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 7:21 am Post subject: |
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Well, like SB has said multiple times...this project is going to take a significant amount of time. If you can wait a few months (if everything goes perfectly the first time), then you should be fine. If you absolutely need one before then, I wouldn't hold my breath. As was stated, if a design flaw is found in the first prototype, they'll have to go back and redesign. The process of designing/redesigning can take months to begin with. So it's safe to say it's going to be a while before we see anything substantial.
I can't wait to see it though, I'll say that much! :D |
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Tarnaxx
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Smash_Brother
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Joined: 15 Jul 2003
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| 106. Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 10:46 am Post subject: |
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Here's my advice when it comes to home-built and octane pads...
The one on the left is my octane pad (ordered from the internet). On the right is my home built. Both have seen an EXTENSIVE amount of work and maintenance in order just to keep them in good, operating condition. The buttons on the octane have cracked and been replaced. We also needed to do a heavy amount of reinforcing, otherwise it would have just fallen apart. If you buy an octane, reinforce the crap out it immediately. There are guides on the internet regarding how to properly do this.
The homebuilt is definitely the better of the two pads, but it has issues with the lexan popping out. I also tend to fall off of it because there's no lip which helps to guide me within the pad (like the lip on the arcade pad helps to do).
The price will probably be $200-300 for one and $500 for two. Yeah, I checked out Channel beat, wondering if it would be a good idea to just buy the parts separately to build an arcade unit for myself, but I came to the conclusion that it would be too expensive.
I make no attempt to disguise the fact that I'm doing this because I too want one of these pads: I personally can't think of a better reason to be doing this. After all, if this thing doesn't get past me as the first tester, it'll never go into production.
We were thinking of having two separate products for the pad: one is just the pad which rests upon the floor, plain and simple. The other is the full platform, which uses a spring suspension system just like that of the arcade and would also include the trick bars. I'm not sure if we're going to pursue this option yet, but it would set apart the two options in price quite a bit (not to mention shipping size and weight).
In any case, I think the main priority is to just get the prototype built and start the testing.
-SB
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"Dance to the music in your soul!" - Toad
Last edited by Smash_Brother on Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total |
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ddrlegend
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Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Location: shamokin |
| 107. Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| Smash_Brother wrote: |
In any case, I think the main priority is to just get the prototype built and start the testing.
-SB |
Agreed and also I have some questions:
~You said that it would identical to the arcade, would that include having the metal higher then the arrows?
~Would the pad have the top two diagonals for solo? because I don't play solo and I would rather it have two metal plates there
~Would there be a control box with start and select on it?(and if you are not going to have the diagonals, the x and o buttons as well.
~How much might the added trick bar cost?
Thanks
-ddrlegend
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CatchyPhraseOwen
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Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA |
| 108. Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Hey, I was just checking out the posts, and I'd say that I would be willing to pay about $400 for an exact arcade replica of a pad. I've got a Cobalt Flux right now, which is awesome, but if there were an exact arcade port out on the market I would probably jump for it. It would depend though; weight, cost, parts, warantee, etc. Also, I don't really play much DDR anymore (IIDX has taken over my life), so my interest would have to hold. One thing you may want to keep in mind is that you may not want to invest TOO much into the pads, seeing as after Extreme and the rumored Party Mix, I'd assume DDR is done with CS releases for JP. You may not thing this means much, but I would assume that 99% of the people who have a $300+ pad or would be willing to spend that much on one play import DDR games. I would draw from this that DDR is very popular now, but the end for the big cash flow is drawing near. Just an opinion though. |
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Smash_Brother
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Joined: 15 Jul 2003
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| 109. Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| ddrlegend wrote: |
Agreed and also I have some questions:
~You said that it would identical to the arcade, would that include having the metal higher then the arrows?
~Would the pad have the top two diagonals for solo? because I don't play solo and I would rather it have two metal plates there
~Would there be a control box with start and select on it?(and if you are not going to have the diagonals, the x and o buttons as well.
~How much might the added trick bar cost? |
1. Yeah, when I say "lip", I mean that the five metal squares will be higher than the buttons. When I first saw this in the arcade, I was under the impression that it was a design flaw. I later realized that it was done that way intentionally so that you could find the buttons without looking at them. It also prevents you from accidentally shifting yourself around on the pad as you'll never be confused as to where the buttons are.
2. Solo would be a distinct possibility, but we opted not to go with it because I seldom hear of people who play solo and it's cheaper to make the pad with just 4 arrows.
3. I'm actually not sure yet as to how we'll do this. There's always the option of having a "between" box which houses the buttons, or we could have them going across the top of the pad in their own enclosure.
Which do you think would be better?
4. I mentioned earlier that we might be doing the two separate designs: one which is just the pad and the other which is the pad sitting in a full-sized arcade platform with trick bars. The best answer that I can give is that it's still too early to tell one way or another.
One of our concerns was that DDR might be on its way out, but I think that enough people would insist otherwise that it would be worthwhile to build and sell these. I don't know how much Stepmania and other sims will change the way it all works, but I think the market has (at least) a few more years left before it becomes a small niche.
I always thought that Konami should go around signing deals with bands who have been out of the spotlight for a little while and put their songs in specialized American mixes. I think people are 50x more likely to put their money into a machine which is playing a song they know and love than a machine which offers them a collection of J-pop which they probably find too different for their tastes, dare I even say...scary? The US itself has a massive stigma against dancing (for guys, anyway) and I think you'd be more likely to get people into the game by offering songs which could be considered "man" music which they wouldn't be embarrassed to dance to.
I would have gone a step further and had a game which offered a special "first time playing" option which gave players the chance to try the game without the risk of failure. Hell, I would have had a special demo button where you could try hitting a few steps without even putting money in, like you press the "Demo" button and it gives you step by step instructions as to how to play, in addition to allowing you to try hitting a few steps for yourself.
Yeah, admittedly, the goal of any arcade game is to make money, but I'd challenge that if you let people try an unlimited number of times to get the hang of it before they drop some coins, you'd have a much better chance at not only getting them to pay for a few rounds but to establish regular players as well.
-SB
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StarDeath88
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Joined: 18 Jul 2003
Location: Long Island |
| 110. Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Tarnaxx wrote: | | Also, would it be possible to make a pad seperator with lights with 5 shades from red to yellow indicating what their health bar is at for playing in the dark?(see pictures) and if they are on fire, have all of the lights flashing in a row dynamically? (red, dark orange, orange, light orange, yellow) but i dont know if you can draw the kind of information necessary from the game to do this. and i understand that it would take an outside power supply seperate from the PS2,which shouldn't be a problem for a TV power strip. |
I'm a little behind on posts (been a bit busy). Just thought I'd let you know that this would be impossible. The controller just doesn't recieve this kind of info and you would need to make a huge mod to the PS2 to get this info. Sounds like a really great idea for an arcade system Konami would make in the future.
Best of luck SB and I'll try to buy one when they come out (my parents wouldn't want a 50-lb hunk of metal on our carpet, go figure). What I've always wondered is how you could take a factory, like a computer factory, and change it to shape this and cut that and stick it all together to make a DDR pad. Very baffling to me...
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Smash_Brother
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Joined: 15 Jul 2003
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| 111. Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| StarDeath88 wrote: | I'm a little behind on posts (been a bit busy). Just thought I'd let you know that this would be impossible. The controller just doesn't recieve this kind of info and you would need to make a huge mod to the PS2 to get this info. Sounds like a really great idea for an arcade system Konami would make in the future.
Best of luck SB and I'll try to buy one when they come out (my parents wouldn't want a 50-lb hunk of metal on our carpet, go figure). What I've always wondered is how you could take a factory, like a computer factory, and change it to shape this and cut that and stick it all together to make a DDR pad. Very baffling to me... |
I'd like to pretend that I truly understand myself, but I don't. My best guess would be that the factory manager/engineer analyzes the design, then orders the necessary parts to built the tools which will create the product, if that is indeed necessary. If the factory is primarily set up for metallurgy already, it might not be necessary to order anything, but I suppose that's wishful thinking.
In any case, my engineer does in fact want to get this thing out by Christmas. I can't guarantee if that will actually happen, but him at least believing in the possibility is a good sign.
-SB
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"Dance to the music in your soul!" - Toad |
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PSOmasterX77
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Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Location: Rochester, NY |
| 112. Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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is there any possible way to purchase an authientic arcade pad and connect it to the PS2? That is the only thing I would buy probably. I want the exact arcade feel, and lights when I stomp the buttons. If possible, I'd like to hook up surround sound speakers to the handbar on the back  |
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PSOmasterX77
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Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Location: Rochester, NY |
| 113. Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| is there any possible way to purchase an authientic arcade pad and connect it to the PS2? That is the only thing I would buy probably. I want the exact arcade feel, and lights when I stomp the buttons. If possible, I'd like to hook up surround sound speakers to the handbar on the back |
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Smash_Brother
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Joined: 15 Jul 2003
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| 114. Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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For the price, you're better off buying a whole machine.
That, and the fact that the sensors on the arcade are analogue sensors, which the PS2 controller doesn't account for (up, down, l and r are all digital inputs).
Believe me, I considered this option first myself.
-SB
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PSOmasterX77
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Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Location: Rochester, NY |
| 115. Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| well is there a way I can order the parts for a pad, put them together, and then get it hooked up to the ps2? |
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Smash_Brother
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Joined: 15 Jul 2003
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| 116. Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Erm, maybe?
It's gonna wind up costing at least $1,000, and I'm not even sure about the electronics used in the arcade pad. I just know what's going into my version.
-SB
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riptide
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Joined: 14 Aug 2002
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| 117. Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| PSOmasterX77 wrote: | | well is there a way I can order the parts for a pad, put them together, and then get it hooked up to the ps2? |
There's a site you can get replacement parts for the arcade pad on, but as far as I know, that's not going to include the frame of the arcade pad. I don't think there's a way to order the parts for it and put it together. However, if you did get the pad, it'd be possible to wire it up to work on the ps2, but it'd be difficult. You'd have to replace the electronics in the pad with a ps2 controller board which would remove the light functionality until you put relays or rig up transistors to flash the lights when you step. For that you'd also need an external power source since the ps2 doesn't really supply much power to the controller. Then you'd also be very limited with the lights as well. There would be no way to do effects like the way the pad flashes them in a circular fashion at the end of a song. It's a lot of work, and you're basically better off either waiting for this pad or building one yourself. The pads I built have a very arcade-like feel, and are way more sensitive. It's a lot of work, and not everyone is up to it. Which is where Smash_Brother comes in. I really don't know anything about him, his design, or his business but I hope his pads turn out well.
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Smash_Brother
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Joined: 15 Jul 2003
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| 118. Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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Anything you want to know in particular?
I'm 22, male, fell in love with DDR 7 or so months ago when a friend and I tried out two soft pads in front of his little sisters (man, THAT was embarrassing). Bought a red octane style pad, it broke, fixed it several times, built my own pad with the help of friends. Then, a local arcade finally acquired a DDR machine. Now, I'm striving to build a pad which feels exactly like the arcade so the hours of practice spent at the game aren't wasted on a pad which provides a different feel than that of the arcade.
Our company link is in my signature.
-SB
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flamefalcon2002
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Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Location: PA |
| 119. Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 7:33 am Post subject: |
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 Well no offence but I already have one... But they are very good, they are exactly the DDR pads, but has a PS1,PS2 hookup. And they arent that heavy, only around 70 punds, also the only part you have to put together on it is attach the handle bar to the pad. Its no big deal. So go buy one they are awsome!!! |
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